View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | View Status | Date Submitted | Last Update |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0000273 | Dwarf Fortress | Dwarf Mode -- Interface, Farm Plots | public | 2010-04-03 08:48 | 2010-08-10 00:13 |
| Reporter | DoctorZuber | Assigned To | |||
| Priority | normal | Severity | minor | Reproducibility | always |
| Status | resolved | Resolution | no change required | ||
| Platform | PC | OS | Windows Vista | OS Version | meh |
| Summary | 0000273: Farms produce less food? | ||||
| Description | one 10x10 plump helmet farm one brewery one farmer at embark with maxed out farming all labors except farming/burial/food hauling disabled on farmer And. I'm starving. I'm watching my farmer, and he seems to be doing his job, the farm plot is often about half full of plump helmets growing. Ready to harvest plants are collected more or less instantly. In desperation I've tasked all my 11 surviving dwarves to farm labor, and they're still barely surviving despite having an enormous 10x10 farm plot which is constantly at least half full of plump helmets. Has farming been rebalanced? | ||||
| Tags | farming, food | ||||
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I noticed when gathering plants (the designation) that dwarves would sometimes not gather anything, even though they were fairly skilled in plant gathering. It was almost as if the lower skill levels of farming/plant gathering have far too low probabilities of harvesting successfully |
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If so that's a dramatic change since harvesting a plant before requires no skill check at all, only planting. |
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SirPenguin said plant *gathering*, the designation, which is Herbalism skill. Not to be confused with plant harvesting. Either way, farming definitely seems to have been severely downtuned. When coupled with the fact that you now need irrigation for underground farms even on soil, this may have tuned farming TOO far down; it's extremely easy now to starve or run out of drinks. It may be that dwarves are eating faster than they used to, as another possibility... |
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Yea, well several forts later, it's a pretty serious issue to me, I'm having to assign about half my available dwarves to the farm simply to have them not all go insane from starvation. |
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The starving issue strikes me as odd as my two starting farmers managed to build up a significant surplus of food on a 5x5 plot. I'd likely have even more, but storage space is hard to come by. |
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I am also not having significant problems with farming. I generally take two proficient farmers at each embark, and I haven't noticed too significant a change in food production. Are you sure you're not just almost instantly making it all into dwarven wine or something? |
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oookay.... One fisherdwarf... FIFTEEN dedicated farmers with only farming/burial/plant hauling labors enabled. All other labors disabled to insure that the farmers do their jobs. One very large plump helmet farm plot and several smaller plots. two stills working as often as possible to convert plants into a fitting beverage for dwarves. Stocks... 732 total fish 321 raw turtle, 361 raw turtle, 37 turtle, 13 turtle 389 prepared meals 414 total plants 344 plump helmet, 41 pig tail, 8 cave wheat, 4 sweet pods, 9 quarry bushes, 8 dimple cups 291 Total Drinks 247 dwarven wine, 34 ale, 10 beer Note, every single one of those prepared meals are fish, all other cooking labors are disabled. One fisherdwarf is outproducing fifteen farmers. |
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Farming seems especially sensitive to bootstrap problems. I had great difficulty getting started; after a few years, with additional influx from a few caravans, my farms are now self-sufficient. Taking along extra seeds/spawn to make up for relatively unskilled farmers may help. Aboveground farming, however, still seems slow; it's just underground that takes a while to get going. |
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definitely not reproducible on my end. a 7x8 plot with 2 dedicated farmers and no other food sources is producing plenty of food and booze for a fortress of 15 and has plenty of time to plant dimple cups and pig tails for a cloth industry. in fact if i let them constantly produce plump helmets i'd have all my stockpiles overflowing. make sure to set gathering to planters only so that planters are the only ones that get the skill ups from harvesting. |
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I'm accustomed to embarking with a single farmer/brewer and quickly running out of barrels as I start brewing. I typically chew up a lot of wood making barrels and bins in the first couple years. At the first wave I would look over my dwarves and select two to join the farm team giving me a total of three full time farmers with all labors disabled except for farming/food hauling/and burial. By the second wave of immigrants I am typically setting my farms to fallow because I am desperately short of barrels and need them to stop clogging them all with food so that I can have drink as well. That was in 40d. Now if I embark with one farmer/brewer even with all other labors disabled and watching him very closely to make sure he doesn't get bogged up in pathfinding issues too badly, a single maxed out farmer/brewer for seven dwarves is eventual starvation. This is magnified when the first wave of immigrants arrives raising my food and drink requirements. Again in 40d, at this point I am typically drafting two more farmers into full time farming duty. I think perhaps the behavior where dwarves gain farming skill for harvesting may have been taken away, which might account for a drop in skill levels and be causing this. It's also hard to rule out pathfinding as a possible factor. Another possibility is that farming yields are simply much lower for a given skill level than they were previously. This is hard for me to verify because I never needed to look into this that closely before, farmers always generated an outrageous surplus of food for very little effort. So I really have no baseline to compare it to without going back to 40d and trying to do tests there as well. I can say that once I got enough farmers up to much higher skill levels I was able to cut back to less farmers and at least not be starving to death. But the production levels never really got to what I am used to where they generate an enormous surplus of food. I never reach the point where my farmers are producing so much food that I have to start setting my farms back to fallow to conserve barrels. |
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Has this been happening with only plump helmets? It would be useful to try with the other crops in stead along with the associated milling/processing/cooking. It may be that plump helmets have simply been nerfed in order to encourage the use of the other food resources available (milking/cheesemaking springs to mind - also slaughtered animals make a crazy amount of food). I think we can all agree that plump helmets pretty much made all other food sources unnecessary. I've been surviving mostly off these food sources - though I did notice farm production being somewhat sluggish. |
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The only thing is true - in new version the dwarfs are kind of slow to harvest. I solved my farming problem radically in my fortress: I dug an enormous 18x25 cavern and then drained a whole lake there, and covered it all with plots. There's quite enough of plants for me, and they often stay on plots even until next season, because dwarfs are kind of slow to gather them. Luckily, the crop doesn't seem to rot on fields or something, so it doesn't cause playability issues. |
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I was farming plump helmets for a short time and now I have tons of them. Every 5x5 farm plot was producing about 20 stacks every season. I have two dedicated high skill growers. Farming other crops is fine too. |
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I'm noticing smaller stacks then normal. I will investigate further. |
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I've been farming multiple crop types easily enough. |
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Boozecooking? It destroys your alcohol; produces only little food (new bug?). Have you disabled booze in the kitchen menu? I started with a proficient farmer and got another adequate with immigrants first year. The first alone narrowly managed 2x6 plumps, had to set 'all harvest' a few times. now im at 4x6, mostly "luxury" crops and plenty surplus for 40 dwarves, cooking and brewing all plants. At the start it may have been a bit "(s)lower" than 40d, i suspect planting takes longer. And harvesting? So does cooking maybe. Anyway, no real problem here. Nerfed maybe, but still very viable. With 31.02 a few fixes are now in too (meat cooking, proper usage of quarry bush) |
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I always turn off booze cooking. I never liked it much it's kind of cheaty, and it has a nasty habit of running me out of booze if I'm not looking. As for it being buggy, I wouldn't know I always turn it off. if it has been rebalanced that's probably intentional. |
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Haven't been noticing much in the way of food problems, personally -- but, on embark, I also bring nothing but picks, axes, and food/drink. I have been noticing that butchering things is almost ridiculously effective, now - and so, have been doing quite a lot of that. |
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I've been having a similar issue: I get maybe 1-5 plots actually being farmed on a 8x8 plot with multiple highly trained available farmers, and then the farmers just idle until the 5 plants grow, and then they harvest them and start again. |
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@Hangedman: likely because of this bug: 0000087 |
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Can anyone confirm this issue? I haven't done any farming myself, but it seems like most people here aren't having problems with the output. Could another bug like 0000605 be preventing their farmers from doing their jobs? |
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Farming is as easy as ever here, letting my one 6x6 plot lie fallow because it makes way more food than my 100 dwarfs can eat. I think a save with the issues in progress would be very helpful, so those of us who aren't experiencing the bug can get a look at whats going on. |
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Is anyone watching the farm plots when seasons change? I've seen mention on SA that there might be a bug with plants simply vanishing when the season changes, though I don't remember if that was because they had the farm set to grow a different crop the new season. |
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Anyone got any updates on this one? New information, illustrative saves, etc? |
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I cannot confirm this problem. It takes me several years to get farming setup now that you need to irrigate the rock. And, when I setup planting, I do it large scale 10x10 size plots. I never run out of food! The original ticket was probably due to "Dabbling" planters planting food, not the harvesters harvesting the planted food. It isn't surprising that they go to harvest and get nothing, the plant was poorly planted. I do notice that planting seeds job takes a lower priority than before. Namely, if your planter has hauling jobs enabled, they will prefer those jobs over planting. I don't think this was the case previously. Almost like Siege operators in 40d. After they fired a shot they would immediately look for a new job, rather than continue loading/firing a siege engine. |
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Okay, consensus seems to be that there isn't a bug here. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2010-04-03 08:48 | DoctorZuber | New Issue | |
| 2010-04-03 09:52 | SirPenguin | Note Added: 0000555 | |
| 2010-04-03 09:56 | DoctorZuber | Note Added: 0000561 | |
| 2010-04-03 11:25 | Shurhaian | Note Added: 0000597 | |
| 2010-04-03 11:26 | Shurhaian | Note Edited: 0000597 | |
| 2010-04-03 14:31 | DoctorZuber | Note Added: 0000661 | |
| 2010-04-03 23:07 | Ashery | Note Added: 0000797 | |
| 2010-04-03 23:55 | MNeis | Note Added: 0000802 | |
| 2010-04-04 00:15 | DoctorZuber | Note Added: 0000807 | |
| 2010-04-04 00:17 | DoctorZuber | Note Edited: 0000807 | |
| 2010-04-04 00:19 | DoctorZuber | Note Edited: 0000807 | |
| 2010-04-04 03:05 | Khym Chanur | Tag Attached: farming | |
| 2010-04-04 03:05 | Khym Chanur | Tag Attached: food | |
| 2010-04-04 22:24 | Shurhaian | Note Added: 0000999 | |
| 2010-04-06 14:49 | anomaly | Note Added: 0001591 | |
| 2010-04-06 22:08 | DoctorZuber | Note Added: 0001676 | |
| 2010-04-07 00:17 | caldfir | Note Added: 0001696 | |
| 2010-04-07 00:20 | caldfir | Note Edited: 0001696 | |
| 2010-04-09 04:55 | Zas | Note Added: 0002299 | |
| 2010-04-09 05:01 | Rafal99 | Note Added: 0002301 | |
| 2010-04-09 11:48 | mrdudeguy | Note Added: 0002371 | |
| 2010-04-09 12:52 | Gafgar | Note Added: 0002400 | |
| 2010-04-09 17:32 | kaefermelder | Note Added: 0002471 | |
| 2010-04-09 17:53 | DoctorZuber | Note Added: 0002477 | |
| 2010-04-09 17:57 | Wirrit | Note Added: 0002480 | |
| 2010-04-12 08:33 | Hangedman | Note Added: 0003047 | |
| 2010-04-12 09:20 | Draco18s | Note Added: 0003064 | |
| 2010-04-24 01:52 |
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Note Added: 0004862 | |
| 2010-04-24 01:56 |
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Note Edited: 0004862 | |
| 2010-04-24 03:44 | GRead | Note Added: 0004867 | |
| 2010-05-08 08:36 | king doom | Note Added: 0006414 | |
| 2010-06-06 11:03 |
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Note Added: 0007810 | |
| 2010-06-06 11:03 |
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Tag Attached: AWAITING UPDATE | |
| 2010-06-07 11:49 | kwieland | Note Added: 0007885 | |
| 2010-06-28 07:39 |
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Note Added: 0009220 | |
| 2010-06-28 07:39 |
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Status | new => resolved |
| 2010-06-28 07:39 |
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Resolution | open => no change required |
| 2010-06-28 07:39 |
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Assigned To | => user6 |
| 2010-08-10 00:13 |
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Tag Detached: AWAITING UPDATE |
