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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0003327Dwarf FortressPathfindingpublic2010-09-27 07:392018-05-11 11:52
ReporterTelarin Assigned To 
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilitysometimes
Status newResolutionopen 
Product Version0.31.14 
Summary0003327: Creatures can pathfind, move and get flow-pushed through submerged fortifications
DescriptionCreatures such as forgotten beasts can walk through fortifications when they are covered with 7/7 water. These are not vaporous or liquid creatures. These same creatures are unable to move through dry fortifications.
Steps To ReproduceUse fortifications to protect the water supply tunnels of a fortress. Watch as some creatures simply pass through those fortifications when they are flooded.
Tagscreatures, flow, fortification, pathfinding, submerged

Relationships

related to 0005512 new Creatures can dodge into fortifications, statues, impassable workshop tiles, etc. 
related to 0003912 new Chains do not prevent removal of creature by fluid flow, and become unusable after creature removed. 
has duplicate 0002160 resolveduser6 Babies/infants stuck inside fortifications, can't be freed except by removing fortification 
has duplicate 0004293 resolveduser6 Unsolid fortifications? 
related to 0005458 new Flows push creatures and dwarves through wall grates 

Activities

Heliman

2010-09-27 18:07

reporter   ~0013030

Last edited: 2010-09-27 18:24

 Do you have a reproducible save showing this?

EDIT: Found this to be totally Reproducible in arena mode, considering it a bug.

Quietust

2010-10-13 13:32

reporter   ~0013351

This is actually a longstanding bug - a quick test in Adventurer mode confirms that this was true even in 0.28.181.40d. Note that vertical bars and wall grates do block passage of creatures, but they're also vulnerable to building destroyers.

kuketski

2010-10-19 22:17

reporter   ~0013418

Confirmed in dwarf fortress mode in 0.31.16.

Narmio

2010-10-20 18:03

reporter   ~0013435

I remember checking this out in a 40d game, I thought it had to do with liquid flows. Creatures couldn't move through the fortifications naturally, but could be pushed through by flows. Is that consistent with what anyone else has observed? Can that be tested in Arena Mode?

kuketski

2010-10-20 22:15

reporter   ~0013440

@Narmio
i`ve observed it in 3 of my forts in 31.12, 31.14 and 31.16
and Heliman found this to be totally Reproducible in arena mode, considering it a bug.

user6

2011-03-21 14:10

  ~0016453

rpetiger posted a save at 0004293: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4011

danaris

2011-03-21 17:50

reporter   ~0016462

I have had dwarves and tame animals pushed through wall grates in .18...

HYBRID BEING

2013-02-14 23:56

reporter   ~0023851

Not fixed as of v0.34.11.

Quietust

2013-02-15 10:00

reporter   ~0023852

Narmio: this is NOT what people are observing - indeed, when flowing liquids are involved, the tile generally does NOT contain 7/7 liquid (because it needs to be non-full in order for water to flow into it in the first place).

burned

2015-01-27 17:51

reporter   ~0032091

I've never thought of this as a bug.

My understanding of what Fortifications in DF represent are akin to battlements.

While something can rest on top of a fortification on the z level above, they do not create floors that you can walk on (nor do I believe they should) like a wall tile does.

To the point, if water is high enough creatures and items should be "pushed through" or more correctly flow between the crenels or over the merlons - which is exactly how it works.

HYBRID BEING

2015-10-14 04:11

reporter   ~0033109

Last edited: 2015-10-14 07:25

 @burned
I believe fortifications in DF stand for arrowslits, not merlons, making things like pathfinding, jumping, throwing, swimming, etc. through them a bug. Toady mentioned two days ago that "Old bug fixed with occupancy for units pushed by flows.", gotta make a mental note to test it, when it will be out.

burned

2016-01-29 11:32

reporter   ~0034570

Last edited: 2016-01-29 11:37

 @HYBRID BEING

If you look at the procedural castle walls, towers, and keeps that Toady designed in adventure mode - all fortifications are placed on top of walls and towers as battlements. They are never used as arrowslits with walls above them.

When you jump on top of them in adventure mode - you remain on the same z-level.

This indicates to me that this "bug" is intended behavior.

HYBRID BEING

2016-02-22 17:15

reporter   ~0034728

Well, crenels might be considered arrowslits without floor above them (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Malta_-_Mdina_-_Lorenzo_Calleja_ditch_-_Il-Foss_tal-Imdina_03_ies.jpg), but there is no indication that crenels are big enough for creatures to pass. In the first place, we are talking about a single z-level, if creature can't pass it unsubmerged, then it shouldn't be able to pass it submerged either.
As for the fact that creatures may end up occupying fortification (with a benefit of being able to exit to any direction), I'd go as far as to say it should be considered a bug.
PS: checked again in arena in v0.42.06 - behavior still present, was able to move alligator through a fully submerged fortification.

burned

2016-03-01 13:59

reporter   ~0034776

But, you can pass through them when they are NOT submerged.

This can be checked when climbing up or down a tower or castle wall in adventure mode. It's worth noting that you remain on the same z-level when you do so.

HYBRID BEING

2016-03-09 14:03

reporter   ~0034817

Last edited: 2016-04-13 06:50

 Sorry, i'm not very knowledgeable about adventure mode and how castles look. I tried several configurations in arena and wasn't able to climb into fortification.
What i'm sure, though, is that fortifications should work the same regardless of whether you climb into it, swim through a submerged one or walk through it (in context of single z-level, obviously).
I mean, if there is a hole big enough to fit through on the same z-level, then there should be no problem accessing it without climbing or swimming. But currently fortifications block movement and pathing unless submerged, so we either do away with this or account swimming and climbing through them a bug.

latias1290

2016-08-23 12:39

reporter   ~0035804

Last edited: 2016-08-23 12:43

 Still a bug (or feature? as discussed above) in 43.05.

HYBRID BEING

2018-03-29 11:48

reporter   ~0038074

Still not fixed in 44.08.

Bumber

2018-05-11 11:52

reporter   ~0038318

Last edited: 2018-05-11 12:46

 I think I may have encountered a related bug: 0010400. 7/7 water generated inside a cavern wall below a kobold site. You can swim right through the wall like it isn't there. Draining the nearby water with DFHack makes the wall solid again once the water dips below 7/7.

This would imply the issue is not limited to fortifications. Any tile that somehow ends up with 7/7 fluid could potentially be swum through.

Add Note

Note

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2010-09-27 07:39 Telarin New Issue
2010-09-27 18:07 Heliman Note Added: 0013030
2010-09-27 18:24 Heliman Note Edited: 0013030
2010-10-13 13:32 Quietust Note Added: 0013351
2010-10-19 22:17 kuketski Note Added: 0013418
2010-10-20 18:03 Narmio Note Added: 0013435
2010-10-20 22:15 kuketski Note Added: 0013440
2010-11-16 13:57 user6 Relationship added related to 0002160
2011-03-21 14:09 user6 Summary Creatures can pathfind and move through fortifications when flooded with water => Creatures can pathfind, move and get flow-pushed through fortifications when flooded with water
2011-03-21 14:09 user6 Summary Creatures can pathfind, move and get flow-pushed through fortifications when flooded with water => Creatures can pathfind, move and get flow-pushed through submerged fortifications
2011-03-21 14:09 user6 Relationship added has duplicate 0004293
2011-03-21 14:10 user6 Note Added: 0016453
2011-03-21 17:50 danaris Note Added: 0016462
2012-02-26 07:32 user6 Relationship added related to 0005458
2013-02-14 23:56 HYBRID BEING Note Added: 0023851
2013-02-15 10:00 Quietust Note Added: 0023852
2013-02-27 23:32 HYBRID BEING Tag Attached: creatures
2013-02-27 23:32 HYBRID BEING Tag Attached: flow
2013-02-27 23:32 HYBRID BEING Tag Attached: pathfinding
2013-02-27 23:32 HYBRID BEING Tag Attached: fortification
2013-02-27 23:32 HYBRID BEING Tag Attached: submerged
2014-01-27 14:50 user6 Relationship added related to 0003131
2014-01-27 14:51 user6 Relationship replaced has duplicate 0003131
2014-01-27 14:52 user6 Relationship deleted has duplicate 0003131
2014-01-27 14:53 user6 Relationship added related to 0005512
2014-01-27 14:54 user6 Relationship added related to 0003912
2014-08-04 09:43 user6 Relationship replaced has duplicate 0002160
2015-01-27 17:51 burned Note Added: 0032091
2015-10-14 04:11 HYBRID BEING Note Added: 0033109
2015-10-14 07:25 HYBRID BEING Note Edited: 0033109
2016-01-29 11:32 burned Note Added: 0034570
2016-01-29 11:34 burned Note Edited: 0034570
2016-01-29 11:36 burned Note Edited: 0034570
2016-01-29 11:37 burned Note Edited: 0034570
2016-02-22 17:15 HYBRID BEING Note Added: 0034728
2016-03-01 13:59 burned Note Added: 0034776
2016-03-09 14:03 HYBRID BEING Note Added: 0034817
2016-03-09 14:06 HYBRID BEING Note Edited: 0034817
2016-03-09 14:07 HYBRID BEING Note Edited: 0034817
2016-04-13 06:50 HYBRID BEING Note Edited: 0034817
2016-08-23 12:39 latias1290 Note Added: 0035804
2016-08-23 12:43 latias1290 Note Edited: 0035804
2018-03-29 11:48 HYBRID BEING Note Added: 0038074
2018-05-11 11:52 Bumber Note Added: 0038318
2018-05-11 11:53 Bumber Note Edited: 0038318
2018-05-11 12:46 Bumber Note Edited: 0038318