View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | View Status | Date Submitted | Last Update |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0007533 | Dwarf Fortress | Dwarf Mode -- Environment | public | 2014-07-21 02:33 | 2015-04-13 13:21 |
| Reporter | Splappy | Assigned To | Toady One | ||
| Priority | normal | Severity | minor | Reproducibility | random |
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 0.40.04 | ||||
| Fixed in Version | 0.40.15 | ||||
| Summary | 0007533: Phantom "Something has collapsed on the surface" reports, related to tree growth/chopping | ||||
| Description | After clearing out a large grove of trees the game will pause at random times and say something has collapsed on the surface, when relocating to the scene there is nothing there above it or on the surface, no combat reports or anything. | ||||
| Additional Information | Saves: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9134 (0.40.04) http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9188 (0.40.05) https://www.dropbox.com/s/522pzeqild0xqc1/treecollapse.7z (0.40.05) http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9205 (0.40.05) https://www.dropbox.com/s/e6drnivrfnn89fe/entourage.zip (0.40.09?) http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9582 (0.40.10, adventure mode) http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9732 (0.40.12) http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9761 (0.40.13) | ||||
| Tags | Save Included | ||||
| has duplicate | 0007544 | resolved | lethosor | Cavein on tree growth |
| has duplicate | 0007527 | resolved | lethosor | Constant Collapses on the Surface - trees branches? |
| has duplicate | 0007705 | resolved | Fruit trees drop fruit bombs, causing collapse messages and explosions | |
| has duplicate | 0007621 | resolved | lethosor | "a section of the cavern has collapsed" announcement for unexplored cavern |
| has duplicate | 0008411 | resolved | Growing tree defeats protection & causes grievous injury | |
| related to | 0006704 | resolved | Toady One | Already-felled trees "collapse" when mining under their former roots |
| related to | 0007581 | resolved | Toady One | Tree growth is too fast. |
| related to | 0008021 | assigned | Trees grow explosively, destroying adjacent buildings. | |
| related to | 0001339 | new | Plants grow in "Muddy Open Space", resulting in occasional cavern collapses |
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Please reopen if 0006704 doesn't explain it. |
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Yeah I wasn't mining the roots at all, and as far as I can see there are no suspended blocks |
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I'm having the exact same issue, and no, there is no under-root mining going on. Mining is going on, but it's generally at a completely different area of the map. It does seem almost as if it is somehow connected to mining, but as to how, I'm not entirely sure. |
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I have had these announcements too. I have not felled any trees, and I have not managed to find any connection to anything else either. I haven't much tried, though. When I couldn't find anything, including dust, I just assumed it was natural tree behavior unnecessarily causing announcements. This was in 40.03, I believe. |
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This has happened to me on every fort mode game so far. As far as I can tell, nothing is actually collapsing. There is no debris or destruction of any kind. |
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I am getting this, often with cave-in type dust and such (above ground!?). As stated before, while I am mining, it is usually elsewhere on the map, unless there's a time-delay between the mining and the "cave-in". |
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It's not a duplicate of 0006704. |
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0007544 might be the cause of this. http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=7544 |
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Huh, you could be right. It does always seem to be right around when trees grow. I'll do some tests and find out. |
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It's not trees growing - or at least, trees are able to grow without this happening. |
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check out the comments on 7544 and try that. |
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Does not apply. Although the problem occurs more often where trees have been felled, I'm getting the problem in areas where trees haven't been felled at all. |
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Just had this message occur when cutting a couple of multi-tile kapok trees. Could logs from tree no. 1 have nestled in the branches of tree no. 2, then tumbled to the ground when that tree was cut down? Version: 0.40.03 |
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I'm on 0.40.04 and think I have a good handle on this now. Just below the place where the collapse is reported, I had previously mined roots. Two open space holes were noted, in the surface and surf-1 layers. I filled these open holes with constructed floors. On the next report of collapse on surface at that location, the constructed floors are gone. Presumed cause: The tree which had been there was not fully removed from memory structures. Next time it is checked for growth there is a mismatch between the layers and a new collapse is reported, which includes deconstructing floors on lower z levels. There is a cloud of "loam" in purple text above the z levels where the floors had been, but those layers are not loam for the base layer, they are clay. I am in the process of capturing a save a few single steps after the collapse message, but it is very late at night here and I don't want to upload it right now. I'll check back to see if a save is actually needed or if the diagnosis led to an aha moment. ;-) |
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I dunno, we are getting this away from any previous activity. |
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A save before would be most helpful, but any save exhibiting this problem would be useful. |
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I've played about 5 mini forts, and I've seen mysterious collapses in every one. I'm not sure if its related to cutting trees, but I have cut trees in each one of those. Unfortunately it is intermittent and random, but I would say that you should see this within a real-life hour of starting a fort. |
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Ok this is a dumb question... Could this be fruit dropping? I know we can't collect fruit right now, but I've noticed that leaves fall in the autumn (without a collapse notice). Maybe its related to such functions of trees. |
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I doubt it. Interestingly enough, the material that's "collapsing" is whatever the surface material is made of. If you have a surface of dirt, it's dirt. If you have loamy sand and fire clay, it's loamy sand and fire clay. It has something to do with the trees, but also something to do with the surface. The fruit can drop on its own without any issues, and so can the leaves. My guess is that there's something in the code to randomly drop leaves/fruits like you might see in real life, but it's pointing at the surface material instead of the leaf/fruit contaminants, which is causing the cave ins. To be completely sure we'd need to mod out fruit and test it then. I could be very wrong, though. |
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Don't remember how to directly attach files, maybe only originator can do that? http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9134 To find the event go down 1 level, then 14 tiles to the right of the stairs is open space where the floor was. Up 2 from there and above is a debris cloud. Note the open space contains the dolomite which was the floor, still in mid air because it hasn't fallen to the level below yet. This represents a save directly after the collapse, but it can also be viewed as one "before" the next collapse for the same area. I've observed 2 that I can nail down this as the location. A save immediately before a collapse will be kinda hard since the location is predictable but the timing is not. During the pause from the message will be the best we can do. |
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This report is the same as 0007527. |
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Further observation: I also think the material being thrown by the collapse is the material which existed there during worldgen before erosion. Edit, wow this is incredibly lucky. Unpaused the save and got another collapse 28 tiles south of the previous location. This one is a chopped tree where roots were not mined underneath. The wood from the chop is still there on the ground. |
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That save is strange - there is obsidian suspended in midair in several locations, one of which collapses when unpaused. A screenshot of the one at (69, 84, 149): http://i.imgur.com/fkNGaDI.png I don't see any signs of obsidian farming, but have you been making obsidian and/or creating it with DFHack? |
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Yes, forgot to mention that. It's unrelated to the bug, or at least should be, I got even more collapses in completely unrelated locations and the placed obsidian was present for weeks/months before this point. And I chopped the relevant tree a long time ago too, it seems. But see below for programmer stuff... I wouldn't mind recreating from an autosave the season before the obsidian was placed if it's really needed. ;) Programmer stuff: There is an unknown object C. C seems to be invisible but still there. (the placed obsidian is also an instance of C but is visible) C was connected to ground via A and B. A is the trunk, B may be a lateral branch. A is chopped. This removed B (which is directly connected) but C does not notice it no longer has support -- evidenced by the hanging obsidian still present Some future event updates the state of C so it realizes it is no longer connected. C collapses. In the case of the obsidian this is what should happen, but the phantom C objects are also reporting they collapsed. |
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I gathered that much, but the question is - what is the game not updating, and why is it updating later in the first place? Also, you'll note that the game does not always cause collapses on load, which implies that something else is going on. Even more curious is the fact that these "cave-ins" are often at ground level. |
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After much more experimentation, I have determined a few different things. 1. It has absolutely nothing to do with mining. 2. It definitely has something to do with trees - specifically, with chopping them. On a map without trees, the problem never occurs - I have tested this with several maps. On a map where there are trees but no chopping, the problem never occurs. It only happens in areas where trees were previously chopped. 3. The collapses have something to do with either leaves, fruit, or branches. The collapse always happens one z-level below where one of these has previously been - and always one z-level. It is possible there is invisible data on the ground level, but this wouldn't collapse. I've searched for it (by trying to build buildings across the map), but I can't find anything. 4. The act of chopping trees does not guarantee a collapse, but enables it. There appears to be some other factor at work here that I can't quite determine. 5. The collapses are always, always some form of dirt, sand, or clay. There doesn't seem to be an exception to this rule, and the types generated is chosen seemingly by the same mechanism the game uses to determine the type of soil in aboveground farms and structures. There can be multiple type - the more soil types you have, the more type of dust you get. 6. The collapses occur at precisely the moment new trees grow - or so it seems, at least. I spent several hours keeping careful track of tree growth in several different worlds/fortresses to determine this. 7. There is at most one collapse per growth cycle, and there never seems to be more than one collapse per tree. (this is debatable, because of the length of time it takes to get a decent number of collapses. 8. Collapses do not need a tree to be present in the immediately adjacent tiles, nor do they need a tree to be absent from the immediately adjacent tiles. From the experiments I've done, what I've come up with is that when a tree is chopped down, certain portions of it are left behind, invisible. These portions are marked as objects in the memory, but lack any other form of identification. When the growth cycle occurs, it recalculates cave-ins and finds these "floating tiles". As the tiles have no other data associated with them, it takes one or more soil types (in the same way that collapsing something in Arena mode would generate hundreds of types of dust) and generates a cave-in type collapse. With no data for the invisible collapsing object, it can only say, "'Something' has collapsed on the surface" - which is exactly what happens. Edit: Would like to add that on rare occasions there are collapses where no dust cloud appears. I'm not entirely sure exactly what causes that, but I have the suspicion that it has something to do with fruit getting stuck in trees. |
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"Something has collapsed on the surface" is the standard surface cave-in message (reproducible in the arena). |
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Ah, all right. Well, still, the array of soil types in the dust clouds are along the same lines as the no-data arena collapses. |
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I've resolved one major instance of this, but I'm going to leave it open for now, since there could be other causes. |
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I don't suppose we could find out exactly which instance was fixed? :) |
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It simply wasn't reprocessing the cave-in information for the columns containing the tree when the tree was removed. Subsequent cave-in announcements could come from mining nearby or from building constructions nearby, but I'd hesitate to say that's the only weird cave-in issue we are going to get from trees. It would be nice to see what's going on with 0.40.05 in any case. |
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I've just had a collapse which looks like it was due to the tree maturing from being a sapling. I had cleared out a largish area around the wooden walls, and some trees have grown back in the zone. The maturing appears to have either lifted some soil with it, or the soil has been displaced by the roots. http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9188 This is for Version v40.05. The newly matured trees don't have their roots showing up. I have not dug in the layer below these trees. The previous trees were felled a season or two ago. |
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Not too phantom, when the growing tree causes your constructions to collapse too... Related bug 0007695 |
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I got this to happen when I tried to fell a tree by an above-ground-level trunk, with my dwarf on a branch. The game collapsed the tree, and replaced that piece of trunk with a piece of ground. Which was not connected to anything and promptly slammed down a level. Fortunately my treecutter is okay. |
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Something from a tree caused a collapse, caved in through the surface and into my farm layer on z -1, destroyed the wooden flooring I had constructed there as well. Don't know if this is part of this all, or helpful, but this save is coincidentally right after/at the collapse. This is in 40.05. https://www.dropbox.com/s/522pzeqild0xqc1/treecollapse.7z |
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I had a fire breathing titan arrive on my woodland embark. The result is a raging forest fire, and the burning trees are collapsing at a prodigious rate that causes this message to appear every few frames. 40.05 save at http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9205 Note that I'm not saying that the fire shouldn't cause the collapses - quite the opposite because the spreading fire is absolutely awesome! But the message popups are making that fort unplayable. |
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I think this definitely has something to do with tree growth. I cut down all the trees on the map (only a small corner portion has trees on this map), and the issue popped up with the new trees that weren't there before. |
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When there is a collapse, does it punch through layers? |
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Can confirm that tree growth seems to be responsible for the "something has collapsed on the surface" reports on 0.40.06. I've just had two saplings grow into (small) multi-story trees, and both caused the announcement. Plus, the zoom sent me to a tile underneath the "new" tree's canopy. |
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Got this in an area where I'd cut down all the trees, and when zoomed to the collapse there was a new tree there. So confirming Dame de la Licorne's observations on this (but now on 0.40.07). |
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Thirding what Dame de la Licorne and SteveTheRed observed. New trees seem to be throwing up clouds of whatever's under them - the soil layer is typical, but I've also had one spray mist(and leave a 1/7 pile of water nearby) when there was a canal beneath them. |
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Yeah, trees are still throwing clouds when they grow. It's not universal by any means, but it happens on occasion. |
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Just confirming that this does punch through many Z-levels. It's been either a 1x1 or a 2x1 and punches through the natural flooring of 10-12 levels before it found a layer not mined out. This has happened 4-5 times in the same fort. I usually revert to a previous save and it doesn't happen again for a couple more seasons. |
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Here's a save. It'll happen in the caverns - not immediately, but within a week or two of game time. https://www.dropbox.com/s/e6drnivrfnn89fe/entourage.zip |
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This is still happening in .40.10 and I've noticed that: 1) It is not limited to sapling growth, I just had a 3z-tall tree grow more branches/twigs and produce the message. 2) It does not occur every time a tree grows (I've had over a dozen saplings grow into mature trees, with only one associated cave-in message). |
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Here's a 40.10 adventure mode save that might be helpful. I exited fast travel in a ruined forest retreat when there were lots of collapses for some reason the moment I moved. Since I crashed in the forest retreat, I took the opportunity to save the game the next time I came around to it. http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9582 Just press . I used DFhacks reveal all so that all of the collapses can be seen and their causes. |
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To smjjames: When you write "I crashed in the forest retreat", do you mean that the game crashed while your adventurer was exploring the retreat? I'm asking this because if it did, then you might have encountered the same bug as the one I reported in 0008162. It would be interesting to know whether that bug is an instance or special case of this one. |
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Hm, coincidentially, it's also saguargo filled, and yeah I crashed when I tried to exit fast travel. Sounds like the same one. |
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Intriguing. If I understand correctly, you are playing on Windows 8, which would mean that it's not just a Linux issue. |
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I might have located something related to the cause of this bug. I had recently felled some trees that were growing within an area I intended to build a structure. When placing a section flooring I noticed a tile was browned amongst the grays of the just ordered flooring. Look for the browned tile near the center of the view (screen size I use is 120x50). http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9732 |
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This is still in .40.13. I've managed to get a save that reproduces 100% (at least on my computer, I hope it reproduces for others). http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9761 The save loads on the 15th Limestone, and the message occurs on the 18th Limestone (usually, occasionally it'll take up until the 24th Limestone). Fort generated in .40.09? (I think, but might have been .40.10) and transferred to each succeeding version. |
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This still occurs in 40.14 with a world genned in the same version. |
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It was only partially updating the cave-in information in some cases during tree growth -- hopefully it'll work for next time. This won't change fire message popups etc., but that's a different issue than these weird phantom messages. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2014-07-21 02:33 | Splappy | New Issue | |
| 2014-07-21 07:11 |
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Note Added: 0027131 | |
| 2014-07-21 07:11 |
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Relationship added | duplicate of 0006704 |
| 2014-07-21 07:11 |
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Status | new => resolved |
| 2014-07-21 07:11 |
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Resolution | open => duplicate |
| 2014-07-21 07:11 |
|
Assigned To | => user6 |
| 2014-07-22 20:25 | Splappy | Note Added: 0027270 | |
| 2014-07-22 20:25 | Splappy | Status | resolved => feedback |
| 2014-07-22 20:25 | Splappy | Resolution | duplicate => reopened |
| 2014-07-22 20:27 | Talvieno | Note Added: 0027271 | |
| 2014-07-23 02:25 | Nahno | Note Added: 0027295 | |
| 2014-07-23 05:00 | cephalo | Note Added: 0027297 | |
| 2014-07-23 05:39 | Dame de la Licorne | Note Added: 0027300 | |
| 2014-07-23 08:12 | Talvieno | Note Added: 0027312 | |
| 2014-07-23 09:54 | cephalo | Note Added: 0027320 | |
| 2014-07-23 09:55 | cephalo | Note Edited: 0027320 | |
| 2014-07-23 15:46 | Talvieno | Note Added: 0027359 | |
| 2014-07-23 15:47 | Talvieno | Note Edited: 0027359 | |
| 2014-07-23 16:02 | Talvieno | Note Added: 0027361 | |
| 2014-07-23 18:01 | cephalo | Note Added: 0027367 | |
| 2014-07-23 18:16 |
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Relationship added | related to 0007544 |
| 2014-07-23 18:16 |
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Relationship deleted | 0006704 |
| 2014-07-23 18:30 | Talvieno | Note Added: 0027371 | |
| 2014-07-23 21:16 | caknuck | Note Added: 0027381 | |
| 2014-07-23 21:17 | caknuck | Note Edited: 0027381 | |
| 2014-07-24 01:43 | HammerDave | Note Added: 0027392 | |
| 2014-07-24 04:27 | cephalo | Note Added: 0027395 | |
| 2014-07-24 04:57 | lethosor | Note Added: 0027398 | |
| 2014-07-24 04:57 | lethosor | Status | feedback => assigned |
| 2014-07-24 04:57 | lethosor | Assigned To | user6 => lethosor |
| 2014-07-24 04:57 | lethosor | Status | assigned => feedback |
| 2014-07-24 07:38 | cephalo | Note Added: 0027412 | |
| 2014-07-24 07:42 | cephalo | Note Added: 0027415 | |
| 2014-07-24 08:55 | Talvieno | Note Added: 0027423 | |
| 2014-07-24 09:03 | HammerDave | Note Added: 0027425 | |
| 2014-07-24 09:05 | Talvieno | Note Added: 0027426 | |
| 2014-07-24 09:11 | HammerDave | Note Added: 0027429 | |
| 2014-07-24 09:17 | HammerDave | Note Edited: 0027429 | |
| 2014-07-24 14:16 |
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Relationship added | related to 0007527 |
| 2014-07-24 14:28 | lethosor | Note Added: 0027449 | |
| 2014-07-24 17:20 | HammerDave | Note Added: 0027463 | |
| 2014-07-24 17:45 | Talvieno | Note Added: 0027465 | |
| 2014-07-24 17:45 | Talvieno | Note Edited: 0027465 | |
| 2014-07-24 17:51 | Talvieno | Note Edited: 0027465 | |
| 2014-07-25 08:49 | Talvieno | Note Added: 0027504 | |
| 2014-07-25 08:54 | Talvieno | Note Edited: 0027504 | |
| 2014-07-25 10:27 | lethosor | Note Added: 0027509 | |
| 2014-07-25 10:29 | lethosor | Relationship replaced | parent of 0007544 |
| 2014-07-25 10:32 | lethosor | Relationship replaced | has duplicate 0007544 |
| 2014-07-25 10:36 | lethosor | Status | feedback => acknowledged |
| 2014-07-25 10:47 | lethosor | Summary | Phantom "Something has collapsed on the surface" reports => Phantom "Something has collapsed on the surface" reports, related to tree growth/chopping |
| 2014-07-25 10:48 | lethosor | Relationship replaced | has duplicate 0007527 |
| 2014-07-25 11:39 | Talvieno | Note Added: 0027517 | |
| 2014-07-25 11:39 | Talvieno | Note Edited: 0027517 | |
| 2014-07-25 12:17 |
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Relationship added | related to 0006704 |
| 2014-07-25 12:17 |
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Relationship added | related to 0007581 |
| 2014-07-25 13:15 | Toady One | Note Added: 0027537 | |
| 2014-07-26 11:28 | Talvieno | Note Added: 0027632 | |
| 2014-07-28 11:42 | Toady One | Note Added: 0027793 | |
| 2014-07-28 12:14 | Tarasque | Note Added: 0027796 | |
| 2014-07-28 12:16 | Tarasque | Note Edited: 0027796 | |
| 2014-07-28 12:52 | eliotcougar | Note Added: 0027801 | |
| 2014-07-28 15:26 | Aescula | Note Added: 0027819 | |
| 2014-07-29 07:06 |
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Relationship added | has duplicate 0007705 |
| 2014-07-29 15:28 | Vherid | Note Added: 0027908 | |
| 2014-07-29 15:28 | Vherid | Note Edited: 0027908 | |
| 2014-07-30 04:46 | SmileyMan | Note Added: 0027936 | |
| 2014-07-30 13:10 | cephalo | Note Added: 0027976 | |
| 2014-08-02 15:25 | ArmokGoB | Note Added: 0028172 | |
| 2014-08-03 10:08 | lethosor | Relationship added | has duplicate 0007621 |
| 2014-08-04 16:06 | Dame de la Licorne | Note Added: 0028325 | |
| 2014-08-11 06:53 | SteveTheRed | Note Added: 0028793 | |
| 2014-08-12 10:57 | Haifisch | Note Added: 0028882 | |
| 2014-08-12 12:03 | Talvieno | Note Added: 0028888 | |
| 2014-08-12 13:13 | Dame de la Licorne | Note Edited: 0028325 | |
| 2014-08-15 07:02 |
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Relationship added | related to 0008021 |
| 2014-08-16 22:43 | adgriff2 | Note Added: 0029158 | |
| 2014-08-21 13:49 | Talvieno | Note Added: 0029448 | |
| 2014-08-21 14:09 | lethosor | Additional Information Updated | |
| 2014-08-21 14:10 | lethosor | Tag Attached: Save Included | |
| 2014-08-25 08:14 | lethosor | Status | acknowledged => confirmed |
| 2014-08-26 12:35 |
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Relationship added | related to 0001339 |
| 2014-08-30 04:49 | Dame de la Licorne | Note Added: 0029792 | |
| 2014-08-31 13:44 | smjjames | Note Added: 0029833 | |
| 2014-08-31 13:44 | smjjames | Note Edited: 0029833 | |
| 2014-08-31 14:48 | Mopsy | Note Added: 0029839 | |
| 2014-08-31 14:56 | smjjames | Note Added: 0029840 | |
| 2014-08-31 16:57 | Mopsy | Note Added: 0029843 | |
| 2014-09-18 20:26 | Veroule | Note Added: 0030252 | |
| 2014-09-21 15:50 | Dame de la Licorne | Note Added: 0030296 | |
| 2014-10-11 09:09 |
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Relationship added | has duplicate 0008411 |
| 2014-10-25 17:08 | lethosor | Additional Information Updated | |
| 2014-11-02 14:48 | KingMurdoc | Note Added: 0030848 | |
| 2014-11-03 11:19 | Toady One | Note Added: 0030858 | |
| 2014-11-03 11:19 | Toady One | Status | confirmed => resolved |
| 2014-11-03 11:19 | Toady One | Fixed in Version | => Next Version |
| 2014-11-03 11:19 | Toady One | Resolution | reopened => fixed |
| 2014-11-03 11:19 | Toady One | Assigned To | lethosor => Toady One |
