View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | View Status | Date Submitted | Last Update |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0001829 | Dwarf Fortress | Dwarf Mode -- Skills and Professions | public | 2010-05-10 16:06 | 2010-09-15 14:54 |
| Reporter | Beeskee | Assigned To | Toady One | ||
| Priority | normal | Severity | minor | Reproducibility | always |
| Status | resolved | Resolution | no change required | ||
| Product Version | 0.31.03 | ||||
| Fixed in Version | 0.31.11 | ||||
| Summary | 0001829: Dwarf skills decrease rapidly without use. | ||||
| Description | My dwarfs skills seem to decrease rapidly without use. I had several near-legendary dwarfs of various professions who have minimal skill levels after a few years of unuse. | ||||
| Tags | decay, skills | ||||
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I searched for skills and skill before posting this and didn't see a similar issue, though I may have missed it. If so, sorry. :) |
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I'm told that stats seem to rot far too quickly, too. Maybe these two things are related? |
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Possibly. It could also lead to other things such as slower skill/stat gain if the decrease is almost as fast as the increase. |
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(Rambling follows, bear with me) Yes. Skills AND attributes (strength, memory, etc.) decay over time. This is by design. However, there's nothing you can do about it. No amount of raw-file editing will help. See the issue 0000803. Rumor has it that physical attributes CAN increase through military training. Everything else (attributes) just goes down over time, no matter what you assign them to do. Skills: increase and decrease over time Attributes: only decrease over time, never increase (with few possible exceptions) Now, I don't know if there's a link between attribute scores and skill gain rates, but if there is, the consequences are pretty serious, improvement-wise. I mean, if a dwarf with higher Memory remembers stuff longer than the other dwarves, and since Memory is an attribute and it can only go down... you probably see where this goes. In short, your dwarves might lose skills at an increasing rate over time, as well as gain skills at an ever slower rate over time (assuming attribute scores affect skill gain/decay rates) I suppose that to fix this, Toady would need to place a limit on how much a dwarf can forget, and then actually make the attributes umm increasable? I wouldn't mind getting actual control over the gain/decay rates through raw-file editing either. |
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If attributes were linked to be improved with skills this shouldn't be an issue. Right now you can have a dwarf who is legendary+5 in a dozen different skills and still have the minimum attributes possible for a dwarf. Slow, weak, frail, confused, stupid. :( |
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Skill rusting sounds realistic in theory, but gameplay wise it just means that you have more chores to remember to make sure your armorer makes one metal cap per year, ad nauseum for each profession. Furthermore, professions differ greatly regarding how much labor is needed for gameplay. How often do you need a clothier? Never? How often do you need a blacksmith? Once in ten years? How do I prevent my medical dwarves from losing skills? Injure people on purpose? Skill rusting can cause problems, while the only gameplay solution for skill rust is busy work. Why not just pretend that dwarves keep their skills up in other ways? |
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I let it sit for a year, and it's still working about like I expect -- a Master miner accumulated 4 levels of rust and no permanent demotion (and wasn't slated for a single level demotion for another 3 years). The rust was worked off after mining 4 walls. For a similar craftsdwarf, I think it would be a few crafted items of somewhat lower quality before being back at peak performance, maybe just one. If I remember, 'v' wasn't showing rust at all in 0.31.03, so I'm not sure where you were seeing the lower values (unless it was in the noble screen or the military screen, where rust was being subtracted). I'm going to change the display in 'v' a bit to separate the rust out, which should make the (rare) permanent demotions more clear. |
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Reminder sent to: Toady One Hey Toady -- cephalo's note at 0002635:0010657 mentions that the medical professions are disproportionately affected by skill rust, due to the difficulty of training dwarves in those skills. I don't know whether that moves this report into "bug" territory for you. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2010-05-10 16:06 | Beeskee | New Issue | |
| 2010-05-10 16:07 | Beeskee | Note Added: 0006516 | |
| 2010-05-10 16:40 | Malicus | Note Added: 0006518 | |
| 2010-05-10 18:07 |
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Relationship added | related to 0000803 |
| 2010-05-10 21:50 | Beeskee | Note Added: 0006537 | |
| 2010-06-04 14:28 | albatross | Note Added: 0007676 | |
| 2010-06-30 09:04 | hyndis | Note Added: 0009372 | |
| 2010-07-11 15:05 | Logical2u | Relationship added | parent of 0002635 |
| 2010-07-12 05:27 | cephalo | Note Added: 0010020 | |
| 2010-07-12 06:45 | TomiTapio | Tag Attached: decoration | |
| 2010-07-12 06:45 | TomiTapio | Tag Attached: skills | |
| 2010-07-12 06:45 | TomiTapio | Tag Detached: decoration | |
| 2010-07-12 06:55 | TomiTapio | Tag Attached: decay | |
| 2010-07-12 12:16 | cephalo | Note Edited: 0010020 | |
| 2010-07-12 15:43 | Logical2u | Relationship replaced | has duplicate 0002635 |
| 2010-07-14 08:58 | Toady One | Note Added: 0010239 | |
| 2010-07-14 08:58 | Toady One | Status | new => resolved |
| 2010-07-14 08:58 | Toady One | Fixed in Version | => 0.31.11 |
| 2010-07-14 08:58 | Toady One | Resolution | open => no change required |
| 2010-07-14 08:58 | Toady One | Assigned To | => Toady One |
| 2010-07-19 11:22 |
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Note Added: 0010659 |
