View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | View Status | Date Submitted | Last Update |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0002294 | Dwarf Fortress | Dwarf Mode -- Combat | public | 2010-06-12 16:03 | 2012-02-21 07:24 |
| Reporter | DarthCloakedDwarf | Assigned To | |||
| Priority | high | Severity | major | Reproducibility | have not tried |
| Status | resolved | Resolution | unable to reproduce | ||
| Product Version | 0.31.06 | ||||
| Summary | 0002294: Attack speed/rate of goblins too high | ||||
| Description | By looking at the combat reports, I've noticed that a single goblin swordsman (in armor) will attack far more often than a single axedwarf (in armor), something to the tune of 5:1. This can't be right-- it's got to be a bug. | ||||
| Steps To Reproduce | Fight goblins, and look at the combat reports. | ||||
| Additional Information | I think this is the reason my forts keep dying off. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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What were your dwarf's skills? |
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Most likely the dwarf was prone, which reduces their attack rate by a huge margin. Or the goblin's strength/agility was much higher. Or the dwarf's speed had been reduced by nausea/blood loss/pain/etc. DF's combat system is complicated enough that there are dozens of possible causes. Unless you can provide a save or a specific arena setup illustrating that, all other things being equal, a goblin attacks much faster than a dwarf, this report won't have anything to act on. |
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When I first saw this report, I thought it was a suggestion (That is, ambushes/sieges are too common). I'm going to edit the title a bit to reflect the actual content. |
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taking a few minutes to create this in the arena, I think there is something to this. 1. create dwarf with grandmaster axe,armor,shield 2. equip him 3. create dwarf 4. create goblin 5. look at the combat report. I got as many as 8 goblin attacks to a SINGLE dwarf attack. This seems a bit off. The dwarf and goblin were equipped and skilled exactly the same. grandmaster axe/armor/shield with iron equipment. |
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DoctorZuber: the stats of arena creatures are randomized. We need to know their stats of the specific ones you spawned. Also, dwarves typically have lower agility than other creatures (see their PHYS_ATT_RANGE). |
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humm... I see what you mean, there seems to be quite a range of stats there. the outcome of goblin vs dwarf is pretty random. one pairing low agil vs low agil still had the goblin striking the dwarf three times to his every one attack however. Other pairings I didn't see the stats for ranged as high as 8 attacks per every one attack the dwarf made. not sure what's up on this one. Not sure I have the patience to isolate this one. |
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@Footkerchief: no, the dwarf wasn't prone until the goblin's zillionth attack, which finally managed to hit and break the tissue of his shoulder, causing him to give in to instantly give into pain like an pansy elf. |
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Did you see the rest of my post? Are you able to reproduce this problem and rule out other factors? |
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I'm not sure how I would go about doing that-- it's more of a general observation. However, I'll try to upload a save next time goblins come to ambush me. Zuber seems to have been able to reproduce it though. |
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Any updates on this one? |
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I really don't know how Dwarven Science is done. Zuber said he had it as being on average 3 swings to 1 in favor of the goblins in matches of equally encumbered and equally statted goblins. |
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Zuber said he had it as being on average 3 swings to 1 in favor of the goblins in matches of equally encumbered and equally statted goblins. Yes, and he didn't (that I know of) rule out dozens of other factors which could easily produce that discrepancy. |
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no it's true, I wasn't super exhaustive about my testing. I just didn't care that much. If someone else does care, I'd suggest running a lot of tests in the arena. and looking over the stat page by taking direct control of your test subjects prior to combat. Release control again before letting them fight naturally. my test pool was pretty limited, a dozen or so fights, in every case goblins got more attacks in than the dwarves, and the goblins won slightly more often than the dwarves. I didn't check stats on all my fights, it was only because of footkerchief that I even figured out how to look at the stats of my subjects since it's not an easy page to find, I'm not even sure how to get that information in fortress mode. also, I didn't say average. 3 swings to one was the SMALLEST ratio I saw. I never saw 1 to 1. I saw some fights that were complete lockouts where the dwarf never got a single swing in. and fights with 7 or 8 to 1 seemed pretty common too. |
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I'd be willing to do this scientifically, if I had the faintest idea how. Maybe you could guide me through the process by which this is done? |
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1. open arena... 2. create dwarf with skills and equipment 3. create goblin with exact same skills and equipment 4. PAUSE!!! 5. select goblin and view him in adventurer mode. 6. look at his statistics page 7. write stuff down 8. repeat 5-7 with your dwarf. 9. Now kick back and watch the two duke it out. 10. look at the combat reports and see exactly who hit who how many times, etc. 11. write stuff down. 12. repeat everything MANY MANY TIMES.... It's that last one that kills me because it's a really time consuming process. |
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Okay. Thanks, I think I shall do this. Thanks, Doc! See here: 0002553 |
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Please reopen this if you can reproduce and quantify the problem in 0.34.02. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2010-06-12 16:03 | DarthCloakedDwarf | New Issue | |
| 2010-06-12 16:15 |
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Note Added: 0008225 | |
| 2010-06-12 17:00 |
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Note Added: 0008229 | |
| 2010-06-12 17:01 |
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Note Edited: 0008229 | |
| 2010-06-12 17:04 | Logical2u | Note Added: 0008230 | |
| 2010-06-12 17:05 | Logical2u | Summary | Goblins attack far too often. => Attack speed/rate of goblins too high |
| 2010-06-12 17:10 | DoctorZuber | Note Added: 0008232 | |
| 2010-06-12 17:11 | DoctorZuber | Note Edited: 0008232 | |
| 2010-06-12 17:21 |
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Note Added: 0008233 | |
| 2010-06-12 19:31 | DoctorZuber | Note Added: 0008234 | |
| 2010-06-12 19:39 | DarthCloakedDwarf | Note Added: 0008235 | |
| 2010-06-12 19:42 | DarthCloakedDwarf | Note Edited: 0008235 | |
| 2010-06-12 19:43 |
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Note Added: 0008237 | |
| 2010-06-13 15:16 | DarthCloakedDwarf | Note Added: 0008330 | |
| 2010-06-21 11:54 |
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Note Added: 0008883 | |
| 2010-06-26 14:47 | DarthCloakedDwarf | Note Added: 0009148 | |
| 2010-06-27 19:56 |
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Note Added: 0009187 | |
| 2010-06-27 23:09 | DoctorZuber | Note Added: 0009192 | |
| 2010-06-27 23:11 | DoctorZuber | Note Edited: 0009192 | |
| 2010-07-02 19:41 | DarthCloakedDwarf | Note Added: 0009552 | |
| 2010-07-02 20:48 | DoctorZuber | Note Added: 0009558 | |
| 2010-07-03 12:03 | DarthCloakedDwarf | Note Added: 0009583 | |
| 2010-07-03 12:10 | DarthCloakedDwarf | Note Edited: 0009583 | |
| 2012-02-21 07:24 |
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Note Added: 0020371 | |
| 2012-02-21 07:24 |
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Status | new => resolved |
| 2012-02-21 07:24 |
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Resolution | open => unable to reproduce |
| 2012-02-21 07:24 |
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Assigned To | => user6 |
