View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | View Status | Date Submitted | Last Update |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0002780 | Dwarf Fortress | Animal Populations | public | 2010-07-21 20:47 | 2016-11-01 09:01 |
| Reporter | cephalo | Assigned To | lethosor | ||
| Priority | normal | Severity | minor | Reproducibility | have not tried |
| Status | acknowledged | Resolution | reopened | ||
| Product Version | 0.31.08 | ||||
| Summary | 0002780: Pond/pool populations (e.g. pond turtles) do not replenish, gradually become extinct | ||||
| Description | Since turtles were my only source of shells, which are ever so important for moods, I am keenly feeling their absence after a few years. I went ahead and modded my world so that hoofs and horns can be used also for shells, (which is actually very cool btw, its awesome to have an artifact decorated with Elk Bird horn.) However, my ponds were filled with turtles early on, and I accumulated many shells that unfortunately rotted away. It seems like fish populations are regenerating, but turtles are not among those, and since I found that odd I decided to report it. | ||||
| Tags | Save Included | ||||
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http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2759 Here is a save for a different bug but it also has no turtles. |
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confirmed. turtles, once they are all fished, wont regenerate. |
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There are some pools in the southern part of my map where the turtles came from, and they are definately still fishable because I've designated a fishing spot and I've seen fish taken there, just no turtles. I'm not sure if this is related to 0002015, because I have plenty of fish. |
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I've had several forts where fish went completely extinct. Not just turtles. Most recent one was at the crossing of a stream and a brook, but I think it was .07. I guess that you can empty a whole region of fish, or whatever map unit dwarf mode populations come from. The region was temperate-cold, freezing in winter, so there was at least one full season of no fishing each year. |
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This was frequent in 40d as well - after enough fishing, your region would be permanently depleted of aquatic life. |
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Seen this as well even with large wildlife. Have an old fortress in 31.08 thats some 40 years after embark. All underground wildlife has been wiped out by my military and it appears to be gone forever. |
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I have trouble with turtles also. Most time, turtles are not availible at all, yet shells are still needed for moods. My answer was to just modify the raws so I could use bones instead of shells. |
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Reminder sent to: cephalo, hyndis, Nimrod, rpetiger Is anyone still experiencing this bug in worlds generated in 0.31.23+? Closely related bug 0002015 was fixed in that version. |
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Happened also in a world created with 32.25. I'm now in year 24 after embark and all fish/turtles in the brook and the pools is gone though I had plenty at the begining. |
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In a world created with 32.25, I have no fish of any kind after about 20 years. |
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Playing 32.24 ran out of mussels in brook after ~ 3 years. It has become extinct. Although there are some vermin fish seen on the map it says "there's nothing to catch in the river" and in fishing zone it is still "0". New animal are coming each season/year but not fish. Playing temperate biome. Plz check bugged save with no fish although submitted to other bug http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4307 |
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I assume the above 3 comments meant to refer to 0.31.* rather than 32.* |
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yes. sorry it is 31.24. just checked once again. every season in zone fishing value is greater than 0. dwarf starts fishing, then reports "there is nothing to catch in the river" and fishing value resets. |
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It is not limited to turtles, all fish will go extinct (in .25) |
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Having the same problem with .34.04 My fisherdwarves stripped a river of all it had. Now while I would understand that you can overfish a murky pool (if nothing which could reproduce is left it naturally goes extinct) I think that should not be possible for a river since you would expect new fish coming in from up- or downstream. |
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.34.11 All fish went completely extinct in the rivers and pools within 5 years. |
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Given http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_2013.html#2013-11-09 , this should be looked into for 0.40.xx. |
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DFHack seems to confirm this, so I'm resolving this issue. If anyone can reproduce it in 0.40.xx, please reopen this report and/or send me a message on the forums. |
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Reopening. |
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I ramped up fishing to test this bug. After many pond turtle roasts (apparently the only species available in my embark), the supply stopped. It has been five in-game years with "nothing to catch"--if the population was refreshing slowly I would expect at least a few new critters to spawn in that time frame. |
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Pond turtles only live in pools, so it could be that only river populations were fixed (which would explain my results). I'll re-title this report again, but feel free to share any additional findings. |
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Pond turtles lay eggs, which might contribute why they will only breed in off site statistics if that's any relevance. DF structures used for dfhack only implies that eggs that are hatched go into certain classes, and entity ID is one of them for intelligent species (crow men eggs layed and hatched on site belong to you etc., underground egg laying races have been in constant decline since they were added because of this until recently) Egg layers have always had a hard time repopulating due to dependency on a object to breed which limited and stagnated them in world gen (made easier by spontaneous population regeneration in world-gen recently). I cannot recollect if its possible to offer pet pond turtles nestboxes to use by pitting or pasturing enough of them in a contained area as a alternative or even if they have additional orientation/marriage barriers to overcome we are not aware of. All gendered vermin breed (or apparently breed, they have the prequesite animal tags but its uncertain whether they become pregnant whilst in the game world before leaving for the site population tally and being replaced with a new generated creature in their momentary existances, or even if they do become pregnant at all with child/adult born states) hermaphrodital or non-gender typical vermin are usually accounted for by being virtually innumerable to compensate for no breeding on site. Technically if the female pond turtle could get off the map by dissapearing and being replaced whilst pregnant it could spawn additional turtles slowly. Fish are very visible with ASCII symbols and can be seen in murky ponds and rivers for periods of time if a example is needed, if they are close together they are in the capacity to breed and keep the numbers up. Drop a sizable amount of caught vermin fish into a empty pool and it should sustain the fish in theory as they repopulate with compatible mates in that area. Similar designs have been used with isolated cave spider rooms with wild vermin which appear to be self sustainable and harvested with burrowed animal trappers & web collectors. Under 'Cave spider silk farm': http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Silk_farming |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2010-07-21 20:47 | cephalo | New Issue | |
| 2010-07-21 20:51 | cephalo | Note Added: 0010802 | |
| 2010-07-21 21:25 |
|
Relationship added | child of 0002015 |
| 2010-07-22 01:51 | Nimrod | Note Added: 0010806 | |
| 2010-07-22 05:23 | cephalo | Note Added: 0010809 | |
| 2010-08-03 15:20 | Kumquat | Note Added: 0011462 | |
| 2010-08-03 18:41 | Quietust | Note Added: 0011466 | |
| 2010-08-04 11:56 | hyndis | Note Added: 0011498 | |
| 2011-03-19 16:53 | Toady One | Relationship replaced | related to 0002015 |
| 2011-03-19 18:04 |
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Tag Attached: Fixed in 0.31.22? | |
| 2011-03-19 18:08 | rpetiger | Note Added: 0016379 | |
| 2011-04-01 12:54 |
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Note Added: 0016947 | |
| 2011-04-01 12:55 |
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Tag Attached: AWAITING UPDATE | |
| 2011-04-19 01:17 | Eskarion | Note Added: 0017440 | |
| 2011-05-25 09:29 | cephalo | Note Added: 0017845 | |
| 2011-05-25 13:04 | ponom | Note Added: 0017846 | |
| 2011-05-25 13:07 | ponom | Note Edited: 0017846 | |
| 2011-05-25 13:20 | Quietust | Note Added: 0017847 | |
| 2011-05-26 11:53 | ponom | Note Added: 0017858 | |
| 2011-10-21 01:55 | Kogut | Note Added: 0018871 | |
| 2011-10-22 12:22 | Kogut | Note Edited: 0018871 | |
| 2012-01-25 12:46 |
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Tag Attached: Save Included | |
| 2012-01-25 12:46 |
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Tag Detached: Fixed in 0.31.22? | |
| 2012-01-25 12:46 |
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Tag Detached: AWAITING UPDATE | |
| 2012-02-29 12:27 | robertheinrich | Note Added: 0020923 | |
| 2012-03-25 19:35 |
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Relationship added | related to 0005703 |
| 2012-07-13 17:21 | toybasher | Note Added: 0023222 | |
| 2014-07-24 05:12 | lethosor | Note Added: 0027399 | |
| 2014-07-24 05:13 | lethosor | Note Edited: 0027399 | |
| 2014-07-24 05:13 | lethosor | Tag Attached: Fixed in 0.40.01? | |
| 2014-07-24 05:16 | lethosor | Summary | Turtles went extinct on my map => Aquatic populations (fish, turtles) do not replenish |
| 2014-07-24 05:17 | lethosor | Summary | Aquatic populations (fish, turtles) do not replenish => Aquatic populations (fish, turtles) do not replenish, gradually become extinct |
| 2014-07-24 05:58 | lethosor | Note Added: 0027400 | |
| 2014-07-24 05:58 | lethosor | Status | new => resolved |
| 2014-07-24 05:58 | lethosor | Fixed in Version | => 0.40.01 |
| 2014-07-24 05:58 | lethosor | Resolution | open => fixed |
| 2014-07-24 05:58 | lethosor | Assigned To | => Toady One |
| 2014-08-07 17:07 | Loci | Tag Attached: not fixed | |
| 2014-08-07 17:13 | lethosor | Assigned To | Toady One => lethosor |
| 2014-08-07 17:13 | lethosor | Note Added: 0028547 | |
| 2014-08-07 17:13 | lethosor | Status | resolved => feedback |
| 2014-08-07 17:13 | lethosor | Resolution | fixed => reopened |
| 2014-08-07 17:13 | lethosor | Tag Detached: Fixed in 0.40.01? | |
| 2014-08-07 17:13 | lethosor | Tag Detached: not fixed | |
| 2014-08-07 17:21 | lethosor | Note Edited: 0028547 | |
| 2014-08-07 17:26 | Loci | Note Added: 0028549 | |
| 2014-08-07 17:50 | lethosor | Note Added: 0028551 | |
| 2014-08-07 17:51 | lethosor | Summary | Aquatic populations (fish, turtles) do not replenish, gradually become extinct => Pond/pool populations (e.g. pond turtles) do not replenish, gradually become extinct |
| 2014-08-07 17:51 | lethosor | Status | feedback => acknowledged |
| 2015-01-09 19:28 |
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Relationship added | related to 0004500 |
| 2016-08-11 17:51 | lethosor | Fixed in Version | 0.40.01 => |
| 2016-10-16 10:46 | Quietust | Note Edited: 0011466 | |
| 2016-11-01 09:01 | FantasticDorf | Note Added: 0036019 | |
| 2016-11-01 11:30 | FantasticDorf | Note Edited: 0036019 | |
| 2016-11-01 11:34 | FantasticDorf | Note Edited: 0036019 |
