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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0003392Dwarf FortressCreaturespublic2010-10-08 20:402014-08-13 12:19
ReporterQuietust Assigned Touser6 
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilityalways
Status confirmedResolutionopen 
Product Version0.31.16 
Summary0003392: Trade capacities are way too high
DescriptionAll of the TRADE_CAPACITY values for the various pack animals are the same as they were back in 0.28.181.40d, prior to the weight unit change: donkeys can carry 1,500kg, mules, horses, and muskoxen can carry 2,000kg, camels can carry as much as 3,000kg worth of goods, and wagons can carry a mind-boggling 15,000kg.

In my current fortress, when the Dwarven caravan arrived, a quick check confirmed that the first horse was indeed carrying just over 1,500kg of goods, easily five times as much as any real horse should be able to carry.

The trade capacity values need to be significantly reduced in order for them to make any sense whatsoever; however, bug 0000197 must be fixed first so that human and dwarven caravans regain the ability to bring the wagons necessary to carry reasonable amounts of trade goods.
Additional InformationAs a side effect, this will likely prevent Elven traders from bringing large animals for trade, especially elephants (which is probably okay, since it's downright ridiculous anyways).
TagsNo tags attached.

Relationships

related to 0000325 resolvedToady One Elves bring hundreds/thousands of items when trading, due to warthogs lacking TRADE_CAPACITY tag 
related to 0000197 resolvedToady One No wagons in trader/merchant caravans 
related to 0005351 resolvedToady One Wagons don't unload fast enough to allow trading, may need NO_THOUGHT_CENTER_FOR_MOVEMENT 
related to 0001024 new Elves continuously emptying and filling their pack animals at the trade depot 

Activities

Jiri Petru

2010-10-09 10:48

reporter   ~0013279

Well, tamed animals could walk along the caravan instead of being traded in cages. That way we could still get elephants.

burlingk

2010-10-09 19:18

reporter   ~0013287

I have not played .16 yet, but I know that 31.x so far has not had wagons. I just assumed that the animals carrying more was to compensate for this fact.

Quietust

2010-10-13 11:17

reporter   ~0013349

According to Toady, wagons are supposed to be showing up - http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62202.msg1426260#msg1426260

al103

2010-10-13 12:08

reporter   ~0013350

He answered about was it bug or not I think, so they supposed to show up, but because of bug they do not.

Quietust

2012-01-01 13:04

reporter   ~0019273

Last edited: 2012-01-01 13:06

 After using some memory hacking to bring wagons back, another issue has become apparent: the WOOD tissue does not have any of the necessary properties (such as MUSCULAR, FUNCTIONAL, STRUCTURAL, etc.) as is the case with other inorganic creatures such as iron men, bronze colossuses, etc.; as a result, wagons move rather slowly (about as slow as pack animals). The creature itself also lacks [NO_THOUGHT_CENTER_FOR_MOVEMENT], which may also be part of the problem.

Quietust

2012-02-19 17:34

reporter   ~0020199

Now that wagons are back, this is somewhat more of an issue - wagons can carry exactly way too much stuff, and any caravan that arrives with wagons will always depart with its pack animals carrying nothing at all.

Kogut

2012-02-20 00:02

reporter   ~0020236

Last edited: 2012-02-20 00:04

 @realism

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:ZDsHEdDncLkJ:his.library.nenu.edu.cn/upload/soft/haopdf/78/21939232.pdf+wagon+medieval+capacity&hl=pl&gl=pl&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESh-wfGH32pWO6OY4EmavNinZ09YQ50tgY0QyHX27my5g7Z--n7AeplQNzaO1adUrtYgUD5KtzD9d_1NZBHIZnSHaZntUbIulds6ZapdwoCcLvgLARTCT0yNKj2Hj-EwMHy9qfhO&sig=AHIEtbQZFdPXwMXwm4YuJxOlGHHaVwOCbg

The carrying capacity of a cart remains a difficult question. A.C. Leighton, Transport and Communication in Early Medieval Europe, AD 500–1100 (New York, 1972), p. 72, gives the figure of 1000 pounds for the carrying capacity of a two-wheeled Roman vehicle. M. Girault, Attelages et charrois au Moyen-Age (Paris, 1992), p. 138, sees pulling capacity of medieval carts limited to 500 kilograms, or 1100 pounds. If Girault is correct, then the carts in use by the English government during Edward’s reign could carry approximately half a ton, and the wagons as well as ox-drawn carts (palustra) could carry about a ton. Masschaele, ‘Transport Costs’, pp. 268–69, identifies several texts from the fourteenth century in which vehicles drawn by four horses are reported to have transported 4 quarters, or 2000 pounds, of supplies. It is not clear from Masschaele’s description of the texts he cites whether these vehicles are two-wheeled carettae or four-wheeled cartae.

Kogut

2012-04-02 04:35

reporter   ~0022015

Still in 34.07

user6

2014-08-13 12:15

  ~0028966

Is this bug still present in 0.40.08+?

Quietust

2014-08-13 12:18

reporter   ~0028968

Very likely - wagons still have [TRADE_CAPACITY:15000], and it's almost guaranteed that said value is still being interpreted the same way.

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Note

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2010-10-08 20:40 Quietust New Issue
2010-10-09 10:48 Jiri Petru Note Added: 0013279
2010-10-09 19:18 burlingk Note Added: 0013287
2010-10-13 11:17 Quietust Note Added: 0013349
2010-10-13 12:08 al103 Note Added: 0013350
2010-11-16 13:38 user6 Relationship added related to 0000325
2010-11-16 13:38 user6 Relationship added related to 0000197
2012-01-01 13:04 Quietust Note Added: 0019273
2012-01-01 13:06 Quietust Note Edited: 0019273
2012-02-19 17:34 Quietust Note Added: 0020199
2012-02-20 00:02 Kogut Note Added: 0020236
2012-02-20 00:03 Kogut Note Edited: 0020236
2012-02-20 00:03 Kogut Note Edited: 0020236
2012-02-20 00:04 Kogut Note Edited: 0020236
2012-02-21 06:38 user6 Relationship added has duplicate 0005351
2012-02-26 10:39 user6 Relationship added related to 0001024
2012-04-02 04:35 Kogut Note Added: 0022015
2012-04-23 06:57 user6 Relationship replaced related to 0005351
2014-08-13 12:15 user6 Note Added: 0028966
2014-08-13 12:15 user6 Assigned To => user6
2014-08-13 12:15 user6 Status new => feedback
2014-08-13 12:18 Quietust Note Added: 0028968
2014-08-13 12:18 Quietust Status feedback => assigned
2014-08-13 12:19 user6 Status assigned => confirmed