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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0004493Dwarf FortressWorld Generation -- Generalpublic2011-04-11 01:252012-02-26 21:27
ReporterKhym Chanur Assigned ToToady One  
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilityalways
Status resolvedResolutionfixed 
Platformx86 (AMD Athlon 7550 Dual-Core)OSMandriva OneOS Version2010 (2.6.33.7)
Product Version0.31.25 
Fixed in Version0.34.01 
Summary0004493: Turtles only appear in island worlds
DescriptionIf you generate a "[SIZE] REGION" world, then turtles won't be available on embark, and fishing in surface murky pools will always give "The is nothing to catch in the [region] swamps". But if you generate a "[ISLAND] REGION" world, turtles are always available on embark, and you can always catch turtles from murky pools.
Tagsfishing, turtle, worldgen

Relationships

related to 0004500 new Tropical Lakes always empty; Murky Ponds odd 

Activities

Khym Chanur

2011-04-12 00:12

reporter   ~0017311

After doing some more testing:

1) Island worlds don't always give you turtles, and non-islands worlds aren't always bereft of them.

2) Checking the animals populations via "export map/gen info" from Legends mode shows that turtles are actually always present in non-islands worlds, but on average there's less of them than in island worlds. The more turtles there are in the world-wide population, the more likely they're available from export from parent civs, and the more likely you'll be able to fish them out from murky pools.

3) Non-island worlds with large non-frozen oceans have more turtles than ones with small or non-existent oceans.

From all this I'm guessing that the ocean turtle population makes it easier to find turtles in murky pools, and that turtle populations are much denser in oceans then on land with murky pools.

Granite26

2011-04-12 11:48

reporter   ~0017318

I believe that this is intended behavior. Animals at a site are drawn from world populations.

May be a 'turtles are too rare in murky pools' issue though.

RossM

2011-04-12 17:37

reporter   ~0017327

Could this have to do with animals being placed in contiguous biomes? Maybe a non-island world can have multiple oceans but only have turtles in one of them.

Khym Chanur

2011-04-12 20:19

reporter   ~0017330

After doing yet more testing, I've found two things that are contributing to the problem:

1) [BIOME:ANY_POOL] seems to be broken. If I replace the turtle's single [BIOME:ANY_POOL] with six biome tags, one for each

* POOL_TEMPERATE_FRESHWATER
* POOL_TEMPERATE_BRACKISHWATER
* POOL_TEMPERATE_SALTWATER
* POOL_TROPICAL_FRESHWATER
* POOL_TROPICAL_BRACKISHWATER
* POOL_TROPICAL_SALTWATER

then the average number of turtles found in non-island worlds increases, and becomes approximately the same as the number of turtles found in non-island worlds. So I'm guessing that ANY_POOL selects only saltwater during worldgen, but includes freshwater murky pools after embark.

2) A creature with many different biomes has a global population than less than what you should get from the sum off each of the biomes. I tried modding turtles so there'd be three different species, one each for fresh, brackish and salt water. When generating worlds with this mod, the average sum of the populations of all three species was about 2 to 2.5 times larger than the average population for the single turtle species which spanned all three types of water.

Or maybe 0000001 and 0000002 are the same bug, and during world gen only one biome is picked for the species to grow in.

Quietust

2011-04-12 21:15

reporter   ~0017331

Last edited: 2011-04-12 21:16

 BIOME:ANY_POOL definitely isn't broken - I've looked at a disassembly of the biome token parsing code (because I like to document the behavior of certain tokens on the wiki for modders), and ANY_POOL simply specifies biomes 30-35, which happen to be the 6 POOL biomes you've listed (in that exact order, no less).

user6

2012-02-17 07:49

  ~0019925

Reminder sent to: Khym Chanur

Is this bug still present in 0.34.01?

Khym Chanur

2012-02-26 19:55

reporter   ~0020781

The problem seems to be gone as of 0.34.02

user6

2012-02-26 21:26

  ~0020784

Awesome.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2011-04-11 01:25 Khym Chanur New Issue
2011-04-11 01:27 Khym Chanur Tag Attached: fishing
2011-04-11 01:27 Khym Chanur Tag Attached: turtle
2011-04-11 01:27 Khym Chanur Tag Attached: worldgen
2011-04-12 00:12 Khym Chanur Note Added: 0017311
2011-04-12 11:48 Granite26 Note Added: 0017318
2011-04-12 17:37 RossM Note Added: 0017327
2011-04-12 20:19 Khym Chanur Note Added: 0017330
2011-04-12 21:15 Quietust Note Added: 0017331
2011-04-12 21:16 Quietust Note Edited: 0017331
2012-02-17 07:49 user6 Note Added: 0019925
2012-02-17 07:50 user6 Tag Attached: AWAITING UPDATE
2012-02-17 07:50 user6 Relationship added related to 0004500
2012-02-26 19:55 Khym Chanur Note Added: 0020781
2012-02-26 21:26 user6 Note Added: 0020784
2012-02-26 21:26 user6 Status new => resolved
2012-02-26 21:26 user6 Fixed in Version => 0.34.01
2012-02-26 21:26 user6 Resolution open => fixed
2012-02-26 21:26 user6 Assigned To => Toady One
2012-02-26 21:27 user6 Tag Detached: AWAITING UPDATE