0004810: Civilization symbol engraving descriptions can show both "design" and "crafting" quality; other engravings do not - Dwarf Fortress Bug Tracker

ID	Project	Category	View Status	Date Submitted	Last Update

0004810	Dwarf Fortress	Artistic Images (engravings etc)	public	2011-08-07 21:46	2011-08-12 19:56

Reporter	UristMcDorf	Assigned To
Priority	normal	Severity	trivial	Reproducibility	have not tried
Status	new	Resolution	open
Platform	Dell Latitude D600 laptop	OS	ubuntu linux	OS Version	2.6.32-23-generi
Product Version	0.31.25

Summary	0004810: Civilization symbol engraving descriptions can show both "design" and "crafting" quality; other engravings do not
Description	Engravings (floor and wall) of civilization symbols show a "design" quality that is constant and is unrelated to the skill of the engraver, as well as a "crafting" quality that is related to skill. All other engravings only show "design" quality, which is related to engraver skill. This is confusing when checking whether a particular engraving can be destroyed without causing the engraver unhappy thoughts. It also seems to imply (correctly or not) that civilization symbol engravings would gain value from design quality, while other engravings do not. Have save if needed.
Steps To Reproduce	- Assign a low- or un-skilled dwarf the "Engraving/Stone detailing" labor (a high-skilled dwarf is less likely to carve generic symbols) - Designate a large smoothed area for engraving - Toggle engravings to be un-hidden (if necessary). - Examine descriptions of the most frequent symbols
Additional Information	Two example descriptions: "Engraved is a Rovod Lilumkubuk rendition of a masterfully designed image of a larch. The image is the symbol of The Somber Tomes, a local dwarven government" (All "larch" images (~ 10) are "masterfully designed". Destroying one causes no unhappy thought to the engraver) "Engraved is a well-crafted Kivish Ardesgusil rendition of a superiorly designed image of two maneras. The image is the symbol of The Tours of Brushing, a dwarven civilization" (All "maneras" images (~ 10) are "superiorly designed" regardless of engraving quality) Both dwarves mentioned were either "Dabbling" or "Novice" at the time of engraving. Descriptions not following the "image is a symbol of <civ>" pattern (generic ones, e.g. "of dwarves", and specific historical event depictions) show only "design" quality; example description "Engraved on the wall is a well-designed image of a shield by Kivish Ardesgusil".
Tags	Intentional/Expected?

~~user1294~~ 2011-08-08 02:41 ~0018452	This is most likely intentional - when engraving a civilization symbol, your dwarves don't follow their creative impulses (or lack thereof), but try to replicate an existing piece of art, which apparently has a quality attached to it itself. How crudely or faithfully your dwarves replicate it has no bearing on the quality of the original, even if that original is usually nowhere to be seen in the game.

UristMcDorf 2011-08-12 19:56 reporter ~0018494 Last edited: 2011-08-12 20:26	Well, I would take issue with that two ways: 1) If design quality and rendering quality are distinct for civilization symbols, why isn't that also true for other engravings? I'd think Urist McNoviceEngraver who has fantastic physical skills but very poor creativity should be worse than the average novice at coming up with his own designs, but better than average at actually carving on a rock wall. 2) Civilization symbols (real ones) are not a single design. The symbol of Lebanon is the cedar, it's not the-design-of-the-flag-with-a-cedar-on-it. Do an image-google on "lebanon cedar"; I've got 4 cedar designs just on page 1, all noticeably distinct, and all clearly alluding to (but not simply copying) the cedar as depicted on the Lebanese flag. Similarly, the US "stars and stripes" flag design gets redesigned all the time; page 1 of an image search on that gives me more artistic redesigns than actual pictures of a flag. Anyway, it's not a gigantic issue (thus marked trivial), it's just inconsistent and an avoidable source of confusion when looking for undestroyable (without art defacement) engravings.

Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2011-08-07 21:46	UristMcDorf	New Issue
2011-08-08 02:36	~~user1294~~	Tag Attached: Intentional/Expected?
2011-08-08 02:41	~~user1294~~	Note Added: 0018452
2011-08-08 05:59	~~user1294~~	Additional Information Updated
2011-08-12 19:56	UristMcDorf	Note Added: 0018494
2011-08-12 20:19	UristMcDorf	Note Edited: 0018494
2011-08-12 20:26	UristMcDorf	Note Edited: 0018494