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IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0002948Dwarf FortressCreaturespublic2012-04-17 13:05
Reporterking doom Assigned To 
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilityalways
Status newResolutionopen 
Product Version0.31.12 
Summary0002948: Stone hauling/construction doesn't increase strength
DescriptionStat gain and loss is still working very oddly, to say the least. This mostly affects animals you capture or are born in your fort, but it affects dwarves as well. Since animals can't actually do any work, they all end up extremely weak and extremely fat, and it seems to take less than a year to go from 'huge and muscular' to 'four legged sack of lard'.

The problem affects dwarves too, even if they are working, specifiacally, if they are hauling stuff around or building walls and suchlike. I've had several dwarves tagged as masons who do nothing but run around putting up walls, and they are all bloated sacks of fat who can't fight sleep. I've had several dwarves who do nothing but haul rock to my masons, and again, they are suddenly the perfect candiate for singing a few rounds of 'who ate all the pies?' at. I kinda figured that if you spent all day moving around slabs of rock that are roughly the same size as your torso, you might at least stay kinda trim, but apparently it doesn't work like that.

One other thing here, is that actually building walls, stairways and suchlike doesn't seem to impove the masons skill at all.
Steps To Reproduceset dwarves to move rock only. Watch him/her pile on the pounds. Create a mason, have him build walls. Watch him quickly transform into a weeble.
TagsNo tags attached.

Relationships

related to 0000803 resolvedToady One Civilian jobs don't use attributes, so civilians all get weak over time 
related to 0002323 resolvedLoci Mason skill not increased by building walls and other constructions 
related to 0007839 assigneduser6 Treading water raises Swimming to Legendary without commensurate attribute gain 

Activities

user6

2010-08-04 07:14

  ~0011482

One other thing here, is that actually building walls, stairways and suchlike doesn't seem to impove the masons skill at all.

This is probably intentional. It was the same in 40d, at least.

Anyway, when Toady marked 0000803 as fixed, he must have missed a few jobs. Are there any gaps aside from hauling and construction?

king doom

2010-08-04 07:42

reporter   ~0011485

Last edited: 2010-08-04 11:34

Noble jobs don't increase PHYSICAL stats, but that makes sense at least - bookkeepers/traders/managers spend a lot of time sitting down. I'm not sure about building traps, my single mechanic is average in size, but he does spend a fair bit of time in the workshop building mechanisms, and it seems like workshop time is what builds stats, so that might be keeping the weight down. Might be worth seting things so that I have a mechanic in the workshop only and one setting up stuff only, see what happens to them. For other jobs, I'm not sure. I tend to have them work in spurts, and honestly, the fat seems to turn up way too easily, since they all end up blob shaped anyway, after about a half a year of just hauling.

Has Toady ever commented on the masonry skill not going up by building a wall thing? seems like it should, I mean, it's not just a case of piling rock on top of each other, building a decent wall takes skill.

user6

2010-08-04 08:21

  ~0011491

Last edited: 2010-08-04 08:24

I'm not sure if there are mental stats, but if there are, those aren't increasing when my guy goes from zero skill to legendary at bookkeeping.

There are many mental attributes: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Attribute

Has Toady ever commented on the masonry skill not going up by building a wall thing?

Not that I could find, but if it's a bug, we already have a report at 0002323, which I'll reopen now so that this discussion can continue there.

king doom

2010-08-04 11:28

reporter   ~0011495

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Attribute


Oh what the hell?

Just forget it. Forget the mental stuff. remove all trace of it from the bug report, I don't want to risk Toady altering it by adding another eighty categories.

user6

2010-08-04 12:03

  ~0011500

Just forget it. Forget the mental stuff. remove all trace of it from the bug report, I don't want to risk Toady altering it by adding another eighty categories.

There's not much chance he'll add more anytime soon. Those were all added in Oct 2008 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_2008.html#2008-10-19), and most of them are just future-proofing.

king doom

2010-08-04 12:58

reporter   ~0011501

Carefully going through the link provided and carefully going through my dwarves, yeah, mental attributes seem to work fine, that was a user error on my part, I was assuming things were using similar stats to the old version. It's really just the entire hard work doesn't cause you to get fit thing now.

malvado

2011-06-05 08:05

reporter   ~0017934

Stat gain is not working exactly as before , in many cases the stat decrease is higher than the stat increase in 31.25 and as such I personally didnt see any good increase untill I modified the initial files in a 2 year span.

It's easy to achieve legendary in most labours without having almost any increase at all with the current rates.

kwieland

2011-06-05 14:37

reporter   ~0017935

Malvado, I've noticed a similar thing. Several of my dwarves are legendary in skills but still pretty weak physically. I don't think that would happen in 40d

Videospirit

2012-04-16 00:15

reporter   ~0022283

I know that record keeper pumped up my expedition leaders memory and analytical abilities through the roof, and my danger room has turbo charged kinestethic sense, spatial sense, and willpower on the dwarves left to get poked with sticks all year round, so mental stats are definately working as intended and I`ve seen noticeable improvement on all dwarves whom had hauling disabled.

Dwarves who did have hauling enabled however are all terrible, some even losing stats in the areas their main profession when they aren`t hauling would improve, but since I disable hauling on military dwarves, and even clumsy very weak quick to tire dwarves can get some work done It has not bothered me much.

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Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2010-08-04 05:59 king doom New Issue
2010-08-04 07:10 user6 Relationship added related to 0000803
2010-08-04 07:12 user6 Summary Stat gain/loss still works very oddly. => Hauling/construction doesn't keep dwarves from getting fat and weak
2010-08-04 07:14 user6 Note Added: 0011482
2010-08-04 07:14 user6 Summary Hauling/construction doesn't keep dwarves from getting fat and weak => Rock hauling/construction doesn't keep dwarves from getting fat and weak
2010-08-04 07:14 user6 Summary Rock hauling/construction doesn't keep dwarves from getting fat and weak => Stone hauling/construction doesn't keep dwarves from getting fat and weak
2010-08-04 07:42 king doom Note Added: 0011485
2010-08-04 08:21 user6 Note Added: 0011491
2010-08-04 08:23 user6 Relationship added related to 0002323
2010-08-04 08:24 user6 Note Edited: 0011491
2010-08-04 08:25 user6 Summary Stone hauling/construction doesn't keep dwarves from getting fat and weak => Stone hauling/construction doesn't increase strength, bookkeeping doesn't increase mental atts
2010-08-04 11:28 king doom Note Added: 0011495
2010-08-04 11:34 king doom Note Edited: 0011485
2010-08-04 12:03 user6 Note Added: 0011500
2010-08-04 12:58 king doom Note Added: 0011501
2010-08-04 13:06 user6 Summary Stone hauling/construction doesn't increase strength, bookkeeping doesn't increase mental atts => Stone hauling/construction doesn't increase strength
2011-06-05 08:05 malvado Note Added: 0017934
2011-06-05 14:37 kwieland Note Added: 0017935
2012-04-16 00:15 Videospirit Note Added: 0022283
2014-08-04 14:26 user6 Relationship added related to 0007839