View Issue Details
ID | Project | Category | View Status | Date Submitted | Last Update |
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0000721 | Dwarf Fortress | Adventure Mode -- Combat | public | 2010-04-07 09:01 | 2011-02-20 17:36 |
Reporter | toybasher | Assigned To | Toady One | ||
Priority | high | Severity | major | Reproducibility | always |
Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
Product Version | 0.31.01 | ||||
Fixed in Version | 0.31.09 | ||||
Summary | 0000721: Mortal wounds frequently don't kill, hearts/throats barely bleed, disembowelment rare | ||||
Description | While playing adventurer mode I stabbed a elf right through the heart and it was a red injury. He didnt die and the bleeding stopped, Shouldnt he have bled to death? Also it seems you cant disembowel creatures anymore. I have given MANY creatures red gut injurys yet they dont get disembowled and they dont die. | ||||
Steps To Reproduce | Find a creature and keep attacking him untill his heart gets red. Then wait and in the L menu you can see that the bleedings syopped even though he should be dead. | ||||
Tags | artery, bleeding, gouge, guts, heart, lodged, MAJOR_ARTERIES, mortal, mortal wound, neck, popped out, throat, wound | ||||
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How do i edit my summery? |
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Also the bleeding stops before the victim even becomes "Faint". |
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It's incredibly noticeable in Adventurer Mode. I once took on a whole town and despite getting a flashing "Mortal Wound" and cyan damage to my heart, a lung, and all my organs...I loved just fine. I only got a bit winded due to one functioning lung. |
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Really, a lot of the time when you have a "Mortal Wound" it's just a bruised lung, which heals moderately quickly. However, it seems that if BOTH lungs are bruised (or bruised enough), you WILL suffocate eventually. Interesting. But yeah, heart-shots don't seem to do enough, and bleeding stops oddly quickly. |
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It happened again, also has anyone seen a creature get disembowled or have a throat get torn out? |
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Nope, not even in all of the combat stuff in Arena. |
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Penguin Cyan means function loss, yet the heart has no use in game, just causes fatal bleeding (well before 2010 at least) when injured. I guess cyan heart injurys should be fatal as basicly your still fine even through your heart has pretty much stopped beating |
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I found out the major arteries tag dosnt work properly and this makes alot of sense (hearts not bleeding much and throats not being slashed out) an an admin please come along and update the summery for me? Thanks. |
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Can an admin hurry up and change the summery for me?,thanks |
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I'm leaving the summary alone, as people searching for this bug aren't likely to know what MAJOR_ARTERIES refers to. Don't worry too much about it -- Toady knew before April 1st that MAJOR_ARTERIES and other bleeding stuff isn't working right. |
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But foot this is why hearts dont bleed and this is also why throats dont bleed!, It means evreything! Just say that because magor arter tag dosant work hearts and throats barly bleed and are no longer mortal. Or somthing! |
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Toady already knows that it doesn't work. |
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Really? |
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Yes, really. It was discovered during pre-release testing. |
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Its not surprising, the MAJOR_ARTERIES tag is applied in a completely different manner than all other body parts. I bet I could simulate something like what Toady was going for by making an special ARTERY tissue that bleeds 50 times more than normal. I am loathe to stick something lack that in my game atm, though, with it being so hard to protect your throat. Also, it would probably break 'Choking' completely, not that its working terribly well at the moment anyway. ;p EDIT: No nevermind, the choking behavior happens to any body part with the [THROAT] tag. Unsurprisingly, throats have this tag. Removing the MAJOR_ARTERY business from dwarves altogether doesn't seem to do a damned thing, as far as I can tell in my testing. The tag seems fully nonfunctional to me. What is it _supposed_ to do exactly? Throats never get more than brown wounds because they're composed entirely of skin, tiny, and embedded in the head. Skin heals ridiculously fast. And any attack that would do more damage than that would decapitate you, or shatter your skull. The THROAT token in the body part seems to prevent the throat from getting pinched off or gouged out like eyeballs can be. |
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I believe the purpose of TL_MAJOR_ARTERIES is what Toady mentioned in http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_2009.html#2009-01-17 "permanent bleeding for wounds like heart bifurcation/throat removal" They're arteries that are supposed to bleed forever once severed, I think. I don't get why they "couldn't be handled in the raw templates," though (Toady's note in creature_standard) -- that makes sense for the throat, since it's just skin tissue, but why couldn't it be added to HEART_TISSUE? |
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Even weirder foot, throat damage never goes beyond brown so it cant be removed, I bet this is how he nerfed strangulation so it didnt cause bleeding to death, He just made it so throats cant be damaged severe enough to cause heavy enough bleeding. and yes, I survived a red heart wound that was "torn apart" its extremely frustrationg how at the same time arrows that stick in ears make you bleed to death and fingers yet with a heart torn apart youl be ok |
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If major arteries worked throat damage could stay as it is. wouldnt matter for throat wounds not going worse then brown cause you could still sever the artery. |
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Somthing of interest also is that eyes cant be entirely gouged out, only "broken open" (wtf?) this might be linked to the throat damage bug |
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to derigo, Even worse, eyelids cant be torn off either,only damaged (yet I have seen a elf without an eyelid once, not sure why tho) eyeballs acually can only be damaged too, same with cheeks. Its kinda lame tho, now I cant rip eyelids off or tear eyes out or anything. (what happens if the throat tag is removed from the throat? can it then be gouged out?) Now throats would be fine if it had several layers, Skin, fat, muscle and "Throat" Now wounds to the last layer can cause breathing problems and bleeding like in the old 40d days, and if they can be removed. The same with necks, it seems necks dont have bones anymore so no broken necks that kill you or anything I THINK. I havnt checked the templates yet, I guess this because I have used my warhammer and the closest I have ever gotten is a torn apart neck muscle. Edit: I have just checked and the neck is internal yet the throat is not! And what does the "vascular" rating mean? Amount of blood loss when injured? |
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In case you're wondering, bumping this report by attaching useless tags won't get it fixed any faster. It's already stickied. Be patient. |
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Sorrey foot, I didnt even know adding tags bumps reports, however do you have any insight on what the vascular rating is for? |
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Yes, it's for how much a tissue bleeds when injured (higher number = more bleeding). |
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Thanks, Its almost silly how the heart has 10, yet the major arteries tag dosant work, if it did it would be pointless (I guess its so minor heart injuries are possible?) |
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I'm noticing that this is partially fixed as I'm seeing disembowelment quite alot whereas it never happened before. I even ripped them out of a creature or two. This is with 31.06 and I'm doing the arena. Haven't yet tried weapons other than 'natural' weapons. |
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@james Can you test it out with other weapons? like swords or picks. I have NEVER seen disembowlment happen. |
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I was playing as a sea monster at that time, so I'm not exactly sure why I saw it there. Maybe the strength value required to do so is off? The thing though is that weapons tend to be fatal without armor, and the armor probably prevents disembowelment. Not to mention that you can't target any specific part for an attack other than wrestling. |
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@james You sure about that? I am still trying EVREYTHING, what seems to affect how often guts popping occurs? |
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No clue. May have something to do with the wound itself or the properties of the wound, or even the attack that is used. I was messing around in the lower right quadrant by spawning every available creature except for the BC (which would pwn everything) and the magmaman which would evaporate the water anyhow. I could try it again with the sea monster and keep an eye out for the guts pop out message. |
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Okay, did some messing around and did it again. Although I was only able to do it once, the gamelog recorded a different critter getting the same thing. The requirement seems to be an attack on the lower body and have the muscles torn apart. The attacks in those two cases were a bite attack by a Jabberer on an Ice Wolf and I did a 'snatch' attack with one of my pincers (Sea Monster) on a Creeping Eye. There may have been more, but I wasn't going to go through ebery single combat log and the announcements and report log has a habit of eating the reports and annoncements. |
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Still cant get it to work, I wonder if theres a varaible that makes wounds "gut-popable" Just look at G-flex's thread on the froums about combat. I should ask him to test this. |
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Putting one of each critter excluding the BC (which would pwn everything), the dragon which kills too quickly with firebreath and messes the whole thing up, the magma dwellers, and the other material-men in an area (water is preferrable) seems to have a chance for at least one 'gut pop' event to happen. Is there a bug report around (besides mine I think) which reports the fact that the announcements window and the reports eat events and stuff way too quickly? Edit: I did a bit more testing and the requirement is more strict than simply tearing apart the muscle, which is actually a relatively common event, but the thing is that the tearing apart the muscle is almost always accompanied by some organ getting torn apart, in those cases, the guts don't pop out. |
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well I found out the tag that causes gut popping, [UNDER_PRESSURE] Can somone try adding it to ALL body parts then testing it in arena? It also has a [DEFAULT_RELSIZE:600] Maybe lowering it makes the guts smaller, thus taking a smaller wound to pop out of? This is in the body_rcp.txt file and body-default.txt file |
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Sounds like fun to me. :) Gotta do math homework first though :P |
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I got a spear and stabbed an elf in the lower body "tearing apart the guts" about 13 times before he bled to death and still his guts didnt pop. |
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Okay, I went and added the [UNDER_PRESSURE] tag to EVERYTHING that has a rel-size tag, which is pretty much almost everything in both files. Gah that took a while. Anyways, in my current round of fighting (round being fight until everybody besides me is dead), I had one non-gut pop so far: Jabberer 1 bites Jaguar 1 in the upper body, tearing apart the muscle! An artery has been opened by the strike! The right lung pops out of the wound! I'm keeping an eye out for more and none so far. I did accidentially spawn a bit of magma, which is complicating things slightly, but eh, survival of the fittest. I think I'll try a horde of jabberers next. Edit: Or maybe not jabberers, I think they have too much fat, making them like a punching bag to a bronze collossus Edit: Another one Ogre 16 slashes Ogre 33 in the upper body with his bronze long sword, tearing apart the muscle! An artery has been opened by the strike! The left lung pops out of the wound! I've been trying with a couple of different weapons and pop outs in general, not just gut pop outs, are rare all over the place. Haven't yet aeen any other organ besides a lung or gut get popped out yet I'm also noticing a possible side effect here, it looks like maybe the under pressure tag is making it easier to die via brain injury. It may have always been this way and I'm just noticing it because I'm paying more attention to combat reports. Also, I should note that I've seen plenty of *weapon* hits the upper/lower body, tearing the muscle. but the weapon usually gets stuckin and so invalidates a popout. So, theres something a bit screwy as weapons got stuck in almost every time. Really though, maybe theres something else that is causing the pop outs to be rare. I don't know if the artery has been opened by the strike is coming from the strike itself or the lung ripping itself free of the artery. Aside from possibly easier death by brain injury (just bruising the brain at minimum) and the new lung popouts, I'm not seeing any effects from putting the [UNDER_PRESSURE] tag on everything that has the rel_size tag on it in those two files Toybasher mentioned. |
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try lowering the rel_size tag, and brain wounds have been like that, most bruises to organs are beyond light which makes the brain go cyan (function loss) and cause death. |
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Okay. Since the lungs have been shown to be able to pop out reliably, I'll just put the tag onto the organs of the upper/lower body and reduce the size of the lungs and guts (and the other organs later), possibly going into double digit and single digit territory. |
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Allright, I've got a good update on this! With all the internal organs (besides the brain which doesn't take much damage to be fatal and the eyes which seem to be immoveably anchored) set to 50 rel size, I've got a heart popping out and a liver popping out while doing a bunch of minotaurs wielding bronze axes (a bit cliche, I know). The messages for the two: Minotaur 75 hacks Minotaur 73 in the upper body with his bronze battle axe, tearing apart the muscle! An artery has been opened by the strike! The liver pops out of the wound! Minotaur 86 hacks Minotaur 87 in the upper body with his bronze battle axe, tearing apart the muscle! The heart pops out of the wound! Haven't had a chance to pull any of said popped organs out. I tried earlier with no weapons, which didn't seem to result in any pop outs. Then tried a bunch of Ogres with battle axes, but didn't work there. The minotaurs are still fighting though, and looking at the log, theres a few other lung pop outs and one other heart pop out. All of a sudden things are popping out left and right. Edit: They really are popping out left and right, I haven't seen a gut pop out yet, but in controlling one minotaur, I realized I was trailing the guts two tiles behind me, and it was just the liver that popped out I think. |
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So lowering the tel_size makes gut pops more common? by the way, does the tag also effect the "pool" of popped organs? and also do the popped organs look any different from one another (doubtful) |
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Looks like lowering it does make pop outs more common, I've lowered that to 1 and haven't seen much of an improvement over 50. It might be the weapons I'm using, dunno. "by the way, does the tag also effect the "pool" of popped organs?" I'm beginning to really notice this. Before, I was getting heart and lung pop outs at about equal rates with the occasional liver pop out, but nothing else. I removed the under pressure tag from those two organs and now I'm seeing only the liver pops out. I was beginning to come to that conclusion and was about to remove the under pressure tag from the liver when I posted this up. "and also do the popped organs look any different from one another (doubtful) " Besides showing the usual popped out status in the wound history screen, the heart and lungs don't seem to show up graphically in any way. As I said before, the liver apparently counts as 'guts' that get trailed behind you. |
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By what I ment to pool of popped organs was "does lower relsize make the trail of guts smaller?" Can you guve me instructions on how to add this to my game? where to add the tags, what files to the tags go in, etc. |
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No idea on the pool of popped organs. As for the tags, I made a copy of my DF gamefolder so that I could mess around in the arena without having to worry about restoring them later. As for where they go, you already mentioned the two folders that they go in, just copy and paste the tag below the rel_size tag. Don't bother putting them on anything besides internal organs as it doesn't have any effect there. I haven't seen a brain pop out, but then again, it doesn't take much to do a fatal brain injury. I haven't tried to really see if the under pressure tag works for the eyes or not, like with gouging and pinching. Anyways, since removing the under pressure tag from the liver, I'm not getting anything to pop out, so I'm currently trying various things. Edit: Hrmmmm, after I removed the tag from the liver, the popouts completely dissapeared, then decided to put the rel_size back up to 50, still nothing. So I deleted the two files and copied the origionals over and then put the rel_size of the guts to 50, and nothing yet. It was working very well for the upper_body organs (of which the liver is tagged as one). I have a hypothesis that perhaps the under pressure tag is working fine for the upper body but is not working at all for the lower body. So, I'm going to try and see how the under pressure tag works for the unaltered organs. |
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As I thought it would, the upper body organs are popping out regularily. The rel_size is unaltered, I'm doing minotaurs with copper battleaxes in the magma 'temple' in the northwest quadrant. I think I'll try making the guts into an upperbody organ. EDIT! SUCCESS! When set as UPPERBODY, the guts pop out on cue! I've already seen 3 or 4 for this turn of combat logs, so lets see how often they do pop out during the duration of the battle. The guts popped out around 30 times, which is pretty good considering there were about 225 minitaurs total and the fact that the pop outs are broken. So, in conclusion, it looks ALOT like there is something wrong with the lowerboidy tag vs the under pressure tag. Just to see what happens, I removed the under pressure tag from the guts, put it on the lower body organs, and set the lower body organs to upper body, and now those are popping out. Using the same setup with minotaurs and copper axes, I've seen kidneys lots of times, stomach at least two times, saw a spleen once, I've yet to see a pancreas pop out though. It seems to be happening at what seems to be the normal rate of how its suppoused to work. This provides even more evidence that something is going on with the LOWERBODY tag and the UNDER_PRESSURE tag. |
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It feels so great to figure out bugs, I hope Toady fixes this one up soon. So the Under_pressure tag makes no difference? Maybe it means so a wound has to be really bad for them to pop out or something. |
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or it could just be the way the lowerbody is "made" like how the upperbody has ribs or something, also does the guts as set as an upperbody organ cause vomiting when bruised? |
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I guess the under_pressure tag is more like a flag that says yes it can pop out. Even messing with the rel_size tag seems to have no effect on the popout rate since it was happening plenty of times with the normal upperbody organs with unmodified rel_size tags. For the second question, I saw plenty of _____ looks sick! when the guts were set as upperbody, so I would say yes. |
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was the upperbody wounded far more often than the lower body? |
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I'll save the some of the gory details for the dev log, but I fixed up major arteries and disemboweling. TL_MAJOR_ARTERIES (and TL_CONNECTS) was broken and beyond that, there was still only a chance to sever a major artery on occasion. It happens all the time now once you get to a 25% fracture level, so hearts that rate as "broken" should always gush. For pop-outs, some of why it is working now must have been my previous fixes (mainly cumulative wounds, which allows pop-outs to happen way more often because repeated thrusts can kind of forge a gut-path to freedom), and the rest was fixing a problem where attacking through prior holes (in the skin say) prevents pop outs, even if you hacked a huge hole in the muscle. |
Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
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2010-04-07 09:01 | toybasher | New Issue | |
2010-04-07 09:02 | toybasher | Tag Attached: wound | |
2010-04-07 10:29 |
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Summary | Mortal wounds are not just the same? => Mortal wounds frequently no longer mortal, hearts/throats barely bleed, disembowelment rare |
2010-04-07 10:29 |
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Relationship added | child of 0000033 |
2010-04-08 15:34 | toybasher | Note Added: 0002174 | |
2010-04-08 15:35 | toybasher | Note View State: 0002174: private | |
2010-04-08 15:36 | toybasher | Note Added: 0002177 | |
2010-04-08 15:37 | toybasher | Note View State: 0002174: public | |
2010-04-08 15:37 | SirPenguin | Note Added: 0002178 | |
2010-04-08 21:48 | shinziril | Note Added: 0002258 | |
2010-04-17 14:26 | toybasher | Note Added: 0003991 | |
2010-04-18 11:21 | toybasher | Tag Attached: bleeding | |
2010-04-18 11:21 | toybasher | Tag Attached: mortal wound | |
2010-04-18 11:21 | toybasher | Tag Attached: mortal | |
2010-04-18 11:22 | toybasher | Tag Attached: guts | |
2010-04-18 11:22 | smjjames | Note Added: 0004073 | |
2010-04-18 11:23 | toybasher | Note Added: 0004075 | |
2010-04-18 11:24 | toybasher | Tag Attached: heart | |
2010-04-24 07:00 | toybasher | Note Added: 0004878 | |
2010-04-24 07:07 | toybasher | Tag Attached: throat | |
2010-04-25 15:53 | toybasher | Note Added: 0005048 | |
2010-04-26 11:34 | toybasher | Tag Attached: artery | |
2010-04-26 12:43 |
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Summary | Mortal wounds frequently no longer mortal, hearts/throats barely bleed, disembowelment rare => Mortal wounds frequently no longer mortal, MAJOR_ARTERIES doesn't work, disembowelment rare |
2010-04-26 12:43 |
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Relationship added | has duplicate 0001404 |
2010-04-26 12:44 |
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Summary | Mortal wounds frequently no longer mortal, MAJOR_ARTERIES doesn't work, disembowelment rare => Mortal wounds frequently no longer mortal, hearts/throats barely bleed, disembowelment rare |
2010-04-26 12:44 |
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Tag Attached: MAJOR_ARTERIES | |
2010-04-26 12:45 |
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Note Added: 0005160 | |
2010-04-27 13:47 | toybasher | Note Added: 0005389 | |
2010-04-27 14:02 |
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Note Added: 0005398 | |
2010-05-04 23:41 |
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Relationship added | has duplicate 0001745 |
2010-05-15 07:52 | toybasher | Note Added: 0006718 | |
2010-05-15 10:48 |
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Note Added: 0006729 | |
2010-05-15 10:51 |
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Relationship added | related to 0000723 |
2010-05-16 07:28 | derigo | Note Added: 0006773 | |
2010-05-16 08:24 | derigo | Note Edited: 0006773 | |
2010-05-16 11:14 |
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Note Added: 0006796 | |
2010-05-16 11:16 |
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Note Edited: 0006796 | |
2010-05-23 14:57 | toybasher | Note Added: 0007225 | |
2010-05-23 15:03 | toybasher | Note Added: 0007226 | |
2010-05-23 15:05 | toybasher | Note Added: 0007227 | |
2010-05-28 17:32 | toybasher | Tag Attached: lodged | |
2010-05-31 15:06 | toybasher | Note Added: 0007517 | |
2010-06-01 11:40 | toybasher | Tag Attached: popped out | |
2010-06-02 12:34 | toybasher | Tag Attached: neck | |
2010-06-06 12:52 | toybasher | Tag Attached: gouge | |
2010-06-06 13:05 |
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Note Added: 0007823 | |
2010-06-06 13:09 | toybasher | Note Added: 0007825 | |
2010-06-06 13:25 |
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Note Added: 0007827 | |
2010-06-06 13:34 | toybasher | Note Added: 0007829 | |
2010-06-12 09:35 | smjjames | Note Added: 0008199 | |
2010-06-12 09:36 | smjjames | Note Edited: 0008199 | |
2010-06-25 08:31 | toybasher | Note Added: 0009083 | |
2010-06-25 13:15 | smjjames | Note Added: 0009099 | |
2010-06-28 15:50 | toybasher | Note Added: 0009275 | |
2010-06-28 18:22 | smjjames | Note Added: 0009283 | |
2010-06-28 18:25 | smjjames | Note Edited: 0009283 | |
2010-06-29 00:14 | smjjames | Note Edited: 0009283 | |
2010-06-29 00:15 | smjjames | Note Edited: 0009283 | |
2010-06-29 00:15 | smjjames | Note Added: 0009292 | |
2010-06-29 16:45 | toybasher | Note Added: 0009337 | |
2010-06-29 17:45 | smjjames | Note Added: 0009341 | |
2010-06-29 20:35 | smjjames | Note Edited: 0009341 | |
2010-06-30 14:14 | toybasher | Note Added: 0009418 | |
2010-06-30 14:18 | smjjames | Note Added: 0009419 | |
2010-06-30 14:19 | toybasher | Note Edited: 0009418 | |
2010-06-30 14:19 | toybasher | Note Edited: 0009418 | |
2010-06-30 14:24 | toybasher | Note Edited: 0009418 | |
2010-06-30 17:36 | toybasher | Note Added: 0009431 | |
2010-06-30 18:43 | smjjames | Note Added: 0009433 | |
2010-06-30 19:41 | smjjames | Note Edited: 0009433 | |
2010-06-30 20:28 | smjjames | Note Edited: 0009433 | |
2010-06-30 20:57 | smjjames | Note Edited: 0009433 | |
2010-06-30 21:58 | smjjames | Note Edited: 0009433 | |
2010-07-01 08:59 | smjjames | Note Edited: 0009433 | |
2010-07-01 09:43 | toybasher | Note Added: 0009462 | |
2010-07-01 09:47 | toybasher | Note Edited: 0009462 | |
2010-07-01 10:15 | smjjames | Note Added: 0009463 | |
2010-07-01 17:24 | smjjames | Note Added: 0009482 | |
2010-07-01 17:35 | smjjames | Note Edited: 0009482 | |
2010-07-01 18:25 | toybasher | Note Added: 0009485 | |
2010-07-01 18:37 | smjjames | Note Added: 0009486 | |
2010-07-01 18:43 | toybasher | Note Added: 0009487 | |
2010-07-01 18:45 | toybasher | Note Edited: 0009487 | |
2010-07-01 19:04 | smjjames | Note Added: 0009489 | |
2010-07-01 19:11 | smjjames | Note Edited: 0009489 | |
2010-07-01 21:17 | smjjames | Note Edited: 0009489 | |
2010-07-01 21:40 | smjjames | Note Added: 0009496 | |
2010-07-01 21:47 | smjjames | Note Edited: 0009496 | |
2010-07-01 22:00 | smjjames | Note Edited: 0009496 | |
2010-07-01 22:37 | smjjames | Note Edited: 0009496 | |
2010-07-02 05:44 | toybasher | Note Added: 0009510 | |
2010-07-02 05:54 | toybasher | Note Added: 0009512 | |
2010-07-02 07:03 |
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Summary | Mortal wounds frequently no longer mortal, hearts/throats barely bleed, disembowelment rare => Mortal wounds frequently don't kill, hearts/throats barely bleed, disembowelment rare |
2010-07-02 08:16 | smjjames | Note Added: 0009518 | |
2010-07-05 10:22 |
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Relationship deleted | related to 0000723 |
2010-07-05 12:39 | eerr | Note Added: 0009657 | |
2010-07-06 06:30 | Toady One | Note Added: 0009679 | |
2010-07-06 06:30 | Toady One | Status | new => resolved |
2010-07-06 06:30 | Toady One | Fixed in Version | => 0.31.09 |
2010-07-06 06:30 | Toady One | Resolution | open => fixed |
2010-07-06 06:30 | Toady One | Assigned To | => Toady One |