View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | View Status | Date Submitted | Last Update |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0007651 | Dwarf Fortress | Dwarf Mode -- Pets | public | 2014-07-26 16:53 | 2015-12-27 13:38 |
| Reporter | Dame de la Licorne | Assigned To | Toady One | ||
| Priority | normal | Severity | minor | Reproducibility | have not tried |
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Platform | HP laptop | OS | Windows | OS Version | 7 |
| Product Version | 0.40.04 | ||||
| Fixed in Version | 0.42.04 | ||||
| Summary | 0007651: Default ORIENTATION excludes some animals from breeding | ||||
| Description | I bought a male & female one-humped camel, and a male & female two-humped camel on embark, hoping to create a camel herd. Four years after embark, they have not produced a single calf. | ||||
| Additional Information | My cats are reproducing normally (bought from traders), and my modded-in aurochsen are also reproducing normally (bought on embark). I added the aurochsen to the creature_domestic.txt file, but did not touch the creature_large_tropical file (which contains the camels). Save file linked in the notes. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| related to | 0007905 | resolved | Toady One | Romance and marriage are mutually exclusive |
| has duplicate | 0008128 | resolved | Cats do not breed | |
| has duplicate | 0008071 | resolved | Nothing being born | |
| has duplicate | 0008132 | resolved | War Animals Not Reproducing | |
| related to | 0006737 | confirmed | Toady One | Flying animals (e.g. birds) stuck in mid air (prevents invasions?) |
| related to | 0008815 | resolved | Toady One | Animal breeding is prevented if animals aren't "willing to marry" |
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The save file is available here: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9166 Edit: The giant lions don't seem to be breeding either, but I'm assuming that has something to do with the [PET_EXOTIC] tag. Edit2: As a side-note, this fort has had no romantic relationships begin (all marriages migrated in), even though I read the wiki and changed the [ORIENTATION] values (before genning the world) for male and female dwarves to make them all heterosexual. I don't know if this is also a bug or if I've just been unlucky, though. |
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Another save with breeding issues in .40.06: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9332 In this fort there is a pair of cats, a pair of pigs, and a 3:1 Female/male collection of peahens/cocks that cannot seem to breed. The fort is a little over 2 years old, and all the animals are from embark. 2 of the 3 peahens have been sitting on eggs behind locked doors for the better part of the entire 2 years. This may be related to the 2 stuck giant owls on the map, or the fact that an undead siege left a random undead elf wandering around. |
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40.06 - two embark alpaca have produced no additional alpacas in time it's taken three dogs to produce more than twenty puppies and my seven unmarried starter dwarves have produced eleven children. I do indeed have a barn owl stuck in mid-air, for what it's worth. |
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Started a new game, this time I disabled all fliers by removing the flier tag. Interestingly, I was still getting birds that would climb up into trees and get stuck. That wasn't a big deal, I'd just cut the tree down to dislodge them. I did not disable invasions, but so far I've only had one group of kobolds thieves show up, who were chased off. Embarked with the exact same compliment of animals from my other save plus 4 dogs (3:1 female/male). Everything except the dogs have had multiple litters. In one year of play the cats have bred twice, the peahens have hatched 3 batches of chicks, the pack animals had 1 calf, and my pigs have had 2 piglets. Also had some wild carp spawn. For whatever reason, my 3 female and 1 male dog collection has produced no puppies in the first year. Seems that stuck birds or the wandering undead from the timed-out invasion might have something to do with making the bug worse, but it also appears that some animals will inexplicably fail to breed for no discernible reason. Either that or I just got unlucky with the RNG on my dogs. I'll be working on a 0.40.07 game to see if I can replicate the issue and narrow down some causal factors. |
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A brief look at the animal breeding logic suggests that this is related to ORIENTATION values, though as far as I can tell [ORIENTATION:(opposite):0:0:N] should allow them to breed properly. |
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Anyone interested in this bug (or the potentially related 0007905) may want to check out this thread: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=142171.0, where some members of the community are trying to pin it down through !!SCIENCE!! |
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This dilemma has precedent in the ancient world: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=obel7Iu1hik#t=38 |
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In the modern world as well. Giraffes and non-pride male lions are actually rather well know for homosexual relations. Anyway, I just managed to prove that this "Bug" is indeed caused by the orientation tag: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=142171.msg5570374#msg5570374 At this point it would be nice to know if this is intended behavior or not. From a viewpoint of the meat industry and related gameplay, it's a mixed bag. It's great that homosexuality in animals is represented from an equality and representational standpoint, but at the same time, animals that don't breed and can't be trained for war will tend to be selectively slaughtered to make way for ones that actually produce offspring. That sends a dubious message at best. |
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I agree. If this gets fixed, it would be good to have some kind of animal infertility rate as a replacement. |
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Confirming that this is still present in .40.09. Also, perhaps it might be good to change the name to something like: animals fertile/sterile according to apparent orientation tagging? |
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I think of this one more as a feuture than as a bug. It makes breeding animals harder and means you need a larger breeding population. |
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I can confirm this is still an ongoing issue in DF .40.24. I usually make a thriving egg farm and seems none of my eggs are hatching. Also my pig milk farm is two years old and hasn't produced a new piglet. The only new babies I get are from animals traded in or brought in migrant waves. They may have one baby then nothing. Now all the poultry I bought at the very beginning. (some turkeys, geese, and chickens) did lay one clutch of eggs that did hatch. but havn't gotten a hatched clutch since then. |
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@MystRunner: There's nothing in this bug report that would cause a previously-fertile animal to stop breeding. Note that "breeding by spores" was removed--separating your males and females now inhibits breeding. Also, because of this bug, slaughtering all your "spare" males can be problematic if you don't carefully examine the males you intend to use for breeding. |
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To respond to it being "intended", if this is purely about [ORIENTATION], I'd say there's still a problem. Yes, there are gay dogs and lions and whatever, but that's completely separate from these animals not breeding because of "commitment issues". Dogs and lions and elk breed in harems, and I have yet to see a dog that refuses to hump anything (be it another dog or a pillow) until after they've met their humping target's parent or the pillow's owner and made it clear they have honorable intentions. Those are social and psychological problems non-sentient animals don't need to contend with, and as such, non-social animals shouldn't be barred from breeding due to "commitment issues". (Birds have mating rituals that could certainly be considered commitment, as they are for life, and I've heard of gay penguins and such that nest with others of their own gender, but I've not heard of a problem of penguins just enjoying the bachelor lifestyle too much to start a mating ritual.) As commitment issues are 4 times as likely as being gay, it's likely that more often than not, the problem is this commitment thing, rather than being gay. |
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Most animals are sentient, by the way. They're just not necessarily as intelligent as humans. |
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Having handled the commitment bug, I'm satisfied enough to close this one. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2014-07-26 16:53 | Dame de la Licorne | New Issue | |
| 2014-07-26 17:07 | Dame de la Licorne | Note Added: 0027649 | |
| 2014-07-26 17:09 | Dame de la Licorne | Note Edited: 0027649 | |
| 2014-07-27 05:51 | Dame de la Licorne | Note Edited: 0027649 | |
| 2014-07-27 07:17 | Dame de la Licorne | Note Edited: 0027649 | |
| 2014-08-09 11:33 | tacomagic | Note Added: 0028657 | |
| 2014-08-09 11:33 | tacomagic | Note Edited: 0028657 | |
| 2014-08-09 11:34 | tacomagic | Note Edited: 0028657 | |
| 2014-08-09 12:20 |
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Relationship added | related to 0006737 |
| 2014-08-09 19:04 | musicmastermsh | Note Added: 0028690 | |
| 2014-08-09 19:06 | musicmastermsh | Note Edited: 0028690 | |
| 2014-08-10 14:38 | tacomagic | Note Added: 0028756 | |
| 2014-08-10 14:39 | tacomagic | Note Edited: 0028756 | |
| 2014-08-13 05:51 | Quietust | Note Added: 0028935 | |
| 2014-08-13 05:56 | Dame de la Licorne | Note Added: 0028936 | |
| 2014-08-13 08:59 |
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Relationship added | related to 0007905 |
| 2014-08-13 09:01 |
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Note Added: 0028949 | |
| 2014-08-13 13:57 | tacomagic | Note Added: 0028989 | |
| 2014-08-13 14:17 |
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Assigned To | => user6 |
| 2014-08-13 14:17 |
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Status | new => confirmed |
| 2014-08-13 14:17 |
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Tag Attached: Intentional/Expected? | |
| 2014-08-13 17:59 | Authority2 | Note Added: 0029003 | |
| 2014-08-19 16:19 | Dame de la Licorne | Note Added: 0029333 | |
| 2014-08-19 16:50 |
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Summary | Some animals (mainly camels) bought on embark are not breeding => Default ORIENTATION excludes some animals from breeding |
| 2014-08-23 15:50 |
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Relationship added | has duplicate 0008128 |
| 2014-08-26 08:07 |
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Relationship added | has duplicate 0008071 |
| 2014-09-03 08:46 |
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Relationship added | has duplicate 0008132 |
| 2015-02-12 14:01 | lethosor | Relationship added | related to 0008815 |
| 2015-02-15 05:20 | Goblin Cookie | Note Added: 0032219 | |
| 2015-02-15 05:20 | Goblin Cookie | Note Edited: 0032219 | |
| 2015-03-20 20:07 | MystRunner | Note Added: 0032388 | |
| 2015-03-20 20:08 | MystRunner | Note Edited: 0032388 | |
| 2015-03-26 12:32 | Loci | Note Added: 0032423 | |
| 2015-05-11 20:15 | NW_Kohaku | Note Added: 0032676 | |
| 2015-05-11 20:16 | NW_Kohaku | Note Edited: 0032676 | |
| 2015-05-21 16:01 | lethosor | Sticky Issue | No => Yes |
| 2015-05-30 15:59 | CLuther88 | Note Added: 0032751 | |
| 2015-12-24 14:13 | Toady One | Note Added: 0034180 | |
| 2015-12-24 14:13 | Toady One | Status | confirmed => resolved |
| 2015-12-24 14:13 | Toady One | Fixed in Version | => Next Version |
| 2015-12-24 14:13 | Toady One | Resolution | open => fixed |
| 2015-12-24 14:13 | Toady One | Assigned To | user6 => Toady One |
| 2015-12-27 13:38 |
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Tag Detached: Intentional/Expected? | |
| 2015-12-27 13:38 |
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Sticky Issue | Yes => No |
