View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | View Status | Date Submitted | Last Update |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0007799 | Dwarf Fortress | Creatures | public | 2014-08-02 13:43 | 2014-08-08 22:24 |
| Reporter | arkhometha | Assigned To | |||
| Priority | normal | Severity | minor | Reproducibility | always |
| Status | feedback | Resolution | open | ||
| Product Version | 0.40.05 | ||||
| Summary | 0007799: Many biological materials have dubious MELTING_POINT, BOILING_POINT, HEATDAM, SPEC_HEAT, IGNITE_POINT | ||||
| Description | Bone and other materials like eyes don't have a [MELTING_POINT] value in the raws. While pulping made the undead kill-able, they are still impervious to the effects of temperature. Affected materials are: skin, bone, nail, synew, muscle, cartilage, hair, feather, scales, nerve, internal organs, hoof and horns, pearl, silk, shell, tallow, chittin and sponge. | ||||
| Steps To Reproduce | Open your material_template_default.txt and see it for yourself or just throw a undead in magma. | ||||
| Additional Information | This is fairly easy to fix and while it's not that much of a big deal, it still can break magma-based defenses and traps and it doesn't make any sense for these materials not to be melt-able. There has some research and discussion, with notes here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104222.msg3675130#msg3675130 and results here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104222.msg3677309#msg3677309 Just putting the word out Toady, the fixes are out there. | ||||
| Tags | Intentional/Expected? | ||||
| has duplicate | 0007800 | resolved | Some raw values for materials are wrong |
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I have no trouble killing zombies in magma/fire in the arena. I suppose, the effects of the HEATDAM_POINT itself have been made more dramatic. |
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This seems to be largely a suggestion. To remain open, this report needs more information about buggy consequences of bad/missing values in the raws, especially since 0005511 was apparently fixed. |
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Samanato is right, they "die in the heat". They take HEATDAM damage, collapse then instantly melt. The undead never melt, they only die in the heat, and it's extremely unlikely to take parts of them by exposing them to magma. This unbalances magma mist and other fire based attacks, like dragon fire. They still remain lethal, but it's more probably they die from HEATDAM chipping them away. Another example is SPEC_HEAT. In vanilla, fat SPEC_HEAT is 4181, the water's value, while IRL it's actually 2348, half of the value. This means that fat take more time to melt and more time to heat than it should. Together, all these values cause some weird behavior when materials are dealing with heat. Some other changes like bone density lighter than they really are and projectiles less lethal than they should be. Right now, wood and bone are basically the same. The report is based on similar reports on wrong raw data like http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1110 I'd ask Toady to wait as there is more research and material values that need correcting, especially in SPEC_HEAT. the YIELD values also seem wrong as punches are still shattering skulls. |
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Living tissue doesn't behave quite like dead tissue, so the high SPEC_HEAT of fat may be to compensate for the effect of blood flow, the lack of proper insulation effects, and and the warm blooded body's ability to sweat away heat. Likewise with other attributes: they don't need to match nature to match the effect of nature. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2014-08-02 13:43 | arkhometha | New Issue | |
| 2014-08-02 13:50 | samanato | Note Added: 0028160 | |
| 2014-08-02 14:56 |
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Relationship added | has duplicate 0007800 |
| 2014-08-02 14:58 |
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Summary | Bone and other tissues don't melt => Many biological materials have dubious BOILING_POINT, HEATDAM, SPEC_HEAT, IGNITE_POINT |
| 2014-08-02 14:58 |
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Summary | Many biological materials have dubious BOILING_POINT, HEATDAM, SPEC_HEAT, IGNITE_POINT => Many biological materials have dubious MELTING_POINT, BOILING_POINT, HEATDAM, SPEC_HEAT, IGNITE_POINT |
| 2014-08-02 14:58 |
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Tag Attached: Intentional/Expected? | |
| 2014-08-02 15:00 |
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Note Added: 0028168 | |
| 2014-08-02 15:00 |
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Assigned To | => user6 |
| 2014-08-02 15:00 |
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Status | new => feedback |
| 2014-08-02 15:01 |
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Note Edited: 0028168 | |
| 2014-08-02 15:01 |
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Note Edited: 0028168 | |
| 2014-08-04 14:29 | arkhometha | Note Added: 0028315 | |
| 2014-08-04 14:29 | arkhometha | Status | feedback => assigned |
| 2014-08-04 14:47 |
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Status | assigned => feedback |
| 2014-08-08 22:24 | King Mir | Note Added: 0028637 |
