View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | View Status | Date Submitted | Last Update |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0001127 | Dwarf Fortress | World Generation -- General | public | 2010-04-13 22:59 | 2017-10-11 09:37 |
| Reporter | Tenyn42 | Assigned To | |||
| Priority | low | Severity | minor | Reproducibility | always |
| Status | new | Resolution | open | ||
| Platform | PC | OS | Windows | OS Version | 7 |
| Product Version | 0.31.03 | ||||
| Summary | 0001127: Worldgen without caverns does not allow embark with seeds/alcohol | ||||
| Description | Created a world with the [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:0]. When embarking, I found I could not purchase any seeds or alcohol. | ||||
| Steps To Reproduce | Below are the worldgen parameters for a sample world without caverns, provided for easy reproduction: [WORLD_GEN] [TITLE:NO CAVERNS] [SEED:3413653283] [HISTORY_SEED:1534942095] [NAME_SEED:3439071062] [CREATURE_SEED:337618384] [DIM:257:257] [EMBARK_POINTS:5000] [END_YEAR:10] [BEAST_END_YEAR:5:80] [REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1] [CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:0] [ELEVATION:1:400:3200:3200] [RAINFALL:0:100:100:100] [TEMPERATURE:25:75:100:100] [DRAINAGE:0:100:100:100] [VOLCANISM:0:100:100:100] [SAVAGERY:0:100:100:100] [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1] [RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1] [DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1] [TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1] [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1] [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1] [TITAN_NUMBER:15] [TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:80:0:100000] [DEMON_NUMBER:15] [GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:100:1000:2000] [EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:100:1000:2000] [PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:20] [PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:1] [COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0] [VOLCANO_MIN:15] [REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:0:0:0] [REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:0:0:0] [REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:0:0:0] [REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:0:0:0] [REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:0:0:0] [REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0] [REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0] [REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:0:0:0] [REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:0:0:0] [EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:0] [RIVER_MINS:800:400] [PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:0] [OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1] [SUBREGION_MAX:5000] [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:0] [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:0] [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100] [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0] [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:100] [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:0] [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:100] [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1] [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:0] [LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:15] [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:5] [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:1] [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:1] [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:5] [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:5] [LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:15] [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5] [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5] [CAVE_MAX_SIZE:25] [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:25] [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:25] [ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:1] [SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2] [TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:10] [TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:100000] [PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1] [ELEVATION_RANGES:0:0:0] [RAIN_RANGES:0:0:0] [DRAINAGE_RANGES:0:0:0] [SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:0:0] [VOLCANISM_RANGES:0:0:0] | ||||
| Additional Information | I understand that, in a world without caverns, things like plump helmets, cave wheat, etc. would not evolve. Dwarves would have to either 1) breed selectively to create them or 2) use surface plants. Option 1 means that I should be able to embark with underground seeds/plants/alcohol, regardless of the existence of caverns. Option 2 means I should be able to embark with surface-farmable seeds/plants/alcohol instead, since this is what the dwarf civ in this world is used to. Not having any farmable crops available until after embark (when I can gather from the wilderness) makes things much harder, as dwarves work slower without alcohol. | ||||
| Tags | Intentional/Expected?, world without caverns | ||||
| related to | 0001311 | resolved | Toady One | World has caverns but one of the several dwarven civs doesn't have access to seeds/plants/drinks |
| has duplicate | 0001233 | closed | Underground plants, fish, seeds unavailable | |
| has duplicate | 0001611 | closed | Logical2u | It is possible to create a world where seeds, drinks, and rope are impossible to embark with |
| has duplicate | 0002457 | resolved | impossible to take drinks, seeds, plants, or fish during embark preparation on custom world gen map | |
| has duplicate | 0004005 | resolved | Game no longer provides seeds either on embark or caravan | |
| related to | 0001449 | acknowledged | Dwarven milk/cheese is not available on embark or for trade | |
| related to | 0004592 | new | Embark wagon/barrels ignore world; got black-cap barrels without caverns | |
| related to | 0004924 | new | Preferences are ignoring world; dwarf likes goblin-cap wood in world without caverns | |
| related to | 0001553 | resolved | Aluminum not available to all dwarven civs | |
| related to | 0003958 | new | Some dwarf civilizations have access to steel without access to iron |
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The additional information segment there looks more like a suggestion than a bug report. You may want to consider posting it to the suggestions forum, assuming it hasn't already been suggested. It looks like a good one that fits well with the procedurally generated nature of DF. As for the bug report itself, I'm not sure if this is working as intended or not. On the one hand, dwarfs should always be able to embark with food, booze and seeds, for simple playability's sake. On the other hand, Civs only have access to resources that are located within their boundaries. Turning off caverns leaves dwarven civs without access to underground plants, so it is 'working as designed' that they should not have access to them or their products, but probably not working as intended. |
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On a related note, further testing indicates that I can generate worlds with some (apparently random) underground plant types not available, just by altering the values of cavern openness and passage density slightly. To create a world with no plump helmets, take the above worldgen parameters and make the following changes: [SEED:1929593645] [HISTORY_SEED:3706604371] [NAME_SEED:1942682520] [CREATURE_SEED:193381517] ... [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:1] [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:60] [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100] [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0] [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:20] To create a world without sweet pods: [SEED:630658727] [HISTORY_SEED:2957172350] [NAME_SEED:649942673] [CREATURE_SEED:2493631520] ... [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:1] [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:60] [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100] [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:70] [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:80] I include the seeds because one of them must determine which plants get discovered by the civilization. |
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I suspect this has to do with the cause of 0000017 . It seems theres alot of options disapering when custom embarks are created. |
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I have also come across this bug. If this is intentional, would it be do-able to have a pop-up on world gen, warning that no underground plants will be available if cavern count is zero? Similar to how the aquifer warning pops up before embark? If this isn't intentional, well, ignore me. |
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I have encountered that "bug" too. I don't think it's a bug, because these plants are underground, which means there should be some caves in start of world's generation or else there is no place for them to spawn and grow. And so if there is no caves, then there is no underground plants exist. And so no dwarf booze for you. And I agree, the game should inform the player of non-existing underground plants then. |
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Dwarves are reliant on foraging (it is actually unknown what quantity or if they are growing plants successfully themselves)underground plants in order to produce the products to import to you. Like numerous people above have said, without these plants or if access is denied to a means of foraging for them, they can't sell them you or embark with them. Ratios of herbalistically harvested to farm-grown plants is unknown. If this was a dwarf only world, you would likely be greeted with a message explained in this report 0006281 complaining of being unable to assign farmers to crops and looping world generation upon deleting all the underground plants and stripping them of their [OUTDOOR_GARDEN] plants |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2010-04-13 22:59 | Tenyn42 | New Issue | |
| 2010-04-13 23:47 | GRead | Note Added: 0003417 | |
| 2010-04-14 00:01 | Tenyn42 | Note Added: 0003419 | |
| 2010-04-16 08:54 |
|
Relationship added | has duplicate 0001233 |
| 2010-04-16 23:40 | Cryten | Note Added: 0003948 | |
| 2010-04-18 18:22 |
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Relationship added | parent of 0001311 |
| 2010-04-23 00:10 |
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Relationship added | related to 0001449 |
| 2010-04-26 17:41 |
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Tag Attached: Intentional? | |
| 2010-04-28 11:39 | Logical2u | Relationship added | has duplicate 0001611 |
| 2010-06-24 06:01 |
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Relationship added | has duplicate 0002457 |
| 2010-07-12 12:03 |
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Tag Renamed | Intentional? => Intentional/Expected? |
| 2010-09-20 03:28 | LurkersA | Note Added: 0012835 | |
| 2011-08-13 10:40 | Tehsapper | Note Added: 0018499 | |
| 2012-01-19 10:23 |
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Relationship replaced | related to 0001311 |
| 2012-01-19 10:23 |
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Relationship added | related to 0004005 |
| 2012-02-20 00:10 | Kogut | Tag Attached: world without caverns | |
| 2012-02-20 08:18 |
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Relationship added | related to 0004592 |
| 2012-02-20 08:18 |
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Relationship added | related to 0004924 |
| 2012-02-23 19:00 |
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Relationship added | related to 0001553 |
| 2012-02-23 19:00 |
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Relationship added | related to 0003958 |
| 2012-03-28 08:00 |
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Relationship replaced | has duplicate 0004005 |
| 2017-10-11 09:37 | FantasticDorf | Note Added: 0036777 |
